Warrior/Raptor 350 Oil cooling

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have any of you looked at the oil cooling path for the manual? there are no oil passages running to the head. pages 2-17 & 2-18. the oil travlers up the timing chain and is slung onto the cam etc. the oil will be under pressure from the crank case into the cooler then return to the crank case. heance the idea that the rod bearing would not be lubed/ cooled effective is obsered. by drilling holes in the side cover is not will have the same pressure/force to push in and out of the cooler.

i know many of you have tried and are using the cover cooling mod and am sure it does provide some cooling but, i can't see how it can cool ass effective as the big bear mod. ad youwill never get me to belive that a few people research as a large corporation as Yamaha. come on really! have you spent thousands or even 100's of thousands of dollors in your case mod? i think not. as a engineer who supplys Ford motor company parts for there trucks i kow how much moeny and design time is really spent it would blow your mind and how much it take to desgin a button for a radio or other parts etc.
 
plus running the Big Bear is taking the oil pressure directly from the oil pump, this means the oil will be push though the cooler and back to the return to the pump. also like at this way, enough thro it might not be as cool yamaha engineered the big bear cooler to work best with the enigine prefromance. plus of the testing has already been done for you and it ia a soild design being a engineer i know how important good eningeering can be.

FALSE, it takes oil directly from the oil FILTER. The big bear mod replaces the oil filer cap. The oil PUMP is on the other side of the case, which is a whole hell of a lot closer to the Clutch cover mod then the bb adaptor.

YAMAHA is notorious for FAST production. Fast production leads to under thinking on engineering. The crappy carrier design and no STOCK cooler on an air cooled engine are two examples of there lack for better planning. I think there reasoning for the need to run it on a filter cap is to assure that no material enters into the cooler lines???? I'm guessing.

Also, there are oil gallys to the head, they travel through the head bolt holes, hence why that are a larger diamater then the bolts themselves. You can see the passages on two of the head bolt holes that have the o-rings.
 
Another major reason is the actual cooling path.......which I AM going to figure out here soon. I THINK, the clutch tap cooler cools the oil BEFORE it goes into the trans. BB adapter cools before it goes into the head. Clutch cover keeps the oil cooler in the trans then it goes through the head and then repeat. BB adapt, cools the oil through the head then through the trans then repeat. One helps the head more, one helps the trans more, or so that's my theory for now. BOTH cool the oil which is a MAJOR help in keepin the heart of these machines happy.

Easy way to test my path is to pull one of the line on the Cover tap when it running real quick like to see which way the oil is being pumped. Either out of the case or out of the line will help me to better understand its flow.

I know the bottom line when tapped empties out just about the area where the oil draine is. The top line come from (or goes to) the head via a route in the case.

I'd love to figure out this oil path as no diagrams currently exist that I know of. Maybe duner can help as he is going to be putting together a lower end here soon as has easy access to it all.
 
The head gets it's oil from the right rear head bolt. That is the head's main galley. Anyone who has ever done their own top end will remember the o-ring that goes between the cylinder and the bottom end, and the o-ring/seal that goes between the cylinder and the head on that head bolt hole. I'm doing this from memory, so bear with me. Oil is directed to 2 places via a "galley junction/split" from that head bolt galley. One is being sent up the head bolt galley to the head. The other sent to the clutch cover galley, which then sends it to the crank. The clutch cover method redirects the oil through the cooler and back into the clutch cover galley, where it is dispersed onto the crank.

The head's oil goes up that head bolt galley, and fills up a large space behind the cam. The cam is hollow, and fills with oil. There are 2 chamfered oiling holes in the cam. The oil is pressurized through those holes, and is what lubricates the rockers, cam & bearings, and valves. The oil then drains back into the bottom end, via the cam chain passageway (I think I remember right). If you've ever had the clutch cover off and the top end off at the same time, you will see that the little oiling hole next to the head bolt threads goes directly to the clutch cover.

The crankcase is nothing but a garbage pit (that is why there is a mesh screen on your drain plug, which is the equivilant of the mesh screen on an automotive oil pump's pick-up tube). Nearly all debris in the oil gets sent to the crankcase after the oil has gone through it's high wear areas. The oil pump sends that dirty oil to the filter. Then it goes from the filter to the main oil galley, where it is sent to the main and cam bearing. This is how the lubrication system of a typical automotive engine works. This engine shouldn't be hardly any different, and I think we can all agree on that.

The big bear cooler is cooling filtered oil, and is sending it to the main galley. Which is great, but that oil is absorbing lots of heat before ever reaching the crank. The oil from a big bear cooler is CERTAINLY much cooler then oil of a non coolered bike. BUT, that oil can be made even MORE cooler using the clutch cover method. Here is why: That filtered oil in the main galley is sent to the junction where it goes to both the head and the crank, via the clutch cover. The clutch cover re-routes that filtered oil and dramatically cools it before sending it to the crank. This is still a closed loop system, so no pressure losse OR airiating is occuring.

I think the biggest reason why there is much speculation about which cooler is the better, is because in theory, BOTH coolers are cooling the oil about the same amount. HOWEVER, because the oil from the big bear cooler absorbs heat before ever reaching the crank, the engine doesn't actually run as cool as a clutch cover cooler.

The arguement has come up about the head recieving the cooler oil with the big bear, and the crank is recieving cooler oil with the clutch cover method. People view that with a "6 of 1, half a dozen of another" mind set. Others have argued why should they go through the extra effort to do the clutch cover method, when cooled oil is cooled oil, and the valve train needs it just like the crank. But, the valve train can do without the cooled oil MUCH more then the crank can. The valve train in most all engine requires much less oil then the crank does anyway. This is why high rpm engines (drag racing) will have modded oil drain back holes in the heads, and push rod valley, use aluminum roller rockers, and other goodies, so more oil stays in the crankcase to prevent oil starvation to the crank and mains. It used to be common practice to cross drill cranks so as to give a full 360* of oiling to the main and rod bearings, for high rpm drag cars.

So, you can see how both methods do their jobs. The oil from the big bear cooler is indeed much cooler then the oil of a non coolered bike. By the time the cooled oil gets to the galley junction for the head and crank, it has already obsorbed heat. That being said, I doubt the head actually recieves oil that is any cooler then the crank. Matter of fact, it is probably hotter then the oil that gets to the crank; because the oil for the head has to run up the length of the cylinder, where the most extreme heat is made from enternal combustion. So if you stop and think about it, how is the head getting cooler oil then the crank? It is probably a bit hotter, only because of the heat of the cylinder and combustion gases.

Now that I've said that someone will probably call me out and say that if that is the case, why do the crank bearings fail, if the head's oil is actually hotter? That can be answered by what I said earlier; the valvetrain requires less oil then the crank in most all engines. That is why cooler oil for the crank is a must. If there was a way to mod the oil drain back system in the head to get more oil to the crank, then this would be a mute issue, and I wouldn't have kept myself up this late writing this article, when I have to get up at 6 to start my day, lol. Enjoy the read.
 
FALSE, it takes oil directly from the oil FILTER. The big bear mod replaces the oil filer cap. The oil PUMP is on the other side of the case, which is a whole hell of a lot closer to the Clutch cover mod then the bb adaptor.


FALSE. oil flows through the cooler first then the filter, now the oil flows from the screen on the drain plug! then the oil pump, then BB oil cooler, then filter. THEN it gets split into 6 different oil passeges the last of which is the crank, the clutch cover ONLY cools the crank, nothing else. that is why i wont run the clutch cover mod. the clutch is more finicky then the crank. i had crank bearings fail but ONLY AFTER i changed it FROM ORIGINAL setup. now im defending Yamaha but i had over 2000 hours in this motor before i had crank issues.

now as for which is better i will always say Big Bear oil cooler because it cools EVERYTHING and the oil gallies go straight from the pump to the trans, crank, topend, all directly so to say the clutch cover is the only one to cool the crank first would be na lie. the clutch cover cools it the most directly but is not the only one to cool it directly.

i also like the big bear cover because its a bolt on and the clutch cover you haveto fight hose clamps to change clutch gaskets.

my 2cents.
 
both cool the oil and this is what both options are all about, the big bear is truly a bolt on kit and much easier to change out if needed. i am thinking about added a larger cooler with a with a pusher fan to add more cooling, possable using a fan from the radiator from a YZY450. if i do wor this out i will post a few pictures of it.
 
True Weston. But, the way I see it is that cooler oil is getting back to the crankcase faster, thus cooler oil is getting recirculated through the whole engine, using the clutch cover method. Basically, I can see where both are beneficial. I guess it is whatever floats one's boat, ya know? I've had the BB on the old engine for a year now, and have never had an issue with it. It deffinetly does it's job. I figured I give the clutch cover set up a try on the stroker. I totally forgot about doing a temp test before I pulled the old engine. Good thing that my buddies warrior is right around the corner, with not an oil cooler anywhere near it.
 
And Weston, thanks for calrifying how that oil branches out once it gets filtered. Obviously it has more then those two galleys to the crank and head, just didn't know the exact paths it took/has. Now I wish I hade my bottom end apart still. lol.
 
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Oh and were it T's its actually a 3 way split, one to crank, one to head, and one to the oiling line behind the clutch, I dont remember were that one goes.. its been a while since I studied gallies on this motor.
 
Yeah me too dude. I knew there were atleast two ways she split. I'm thinking about putting a mechanical oil pressure gauge on my bike.
 
Now on oil coolers, I see how it works on the crank but i don't see how it gets the same amount of oil, after all all the cooler is is a heat pump and restriction on the system so in my mind that would cut back on oil flow because there's no regulatory system in the oiling system in these motors.

Ive never had issues with bottom end failure, just clutch and cam, and the freak accidents with the wiseco cranks. But that's my Texan experience.
 
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I think with some testing between all of us and the knowledge of the people that have split cases we'll get some good info this year. Im almost willing to bet that we will find out both options are good, just comes down to different strokes for different folks. What fun would it be if we all ran the same stuff!!!
 
Can someone please tell me how long of the braided steel lines are needed to do this mod and a round about price it would be to purchase the lines from summit racing. Thanks
 
because there's no regulatory system in the oiling system in these motors.

HUH? Can you explain.

Flow I don't think is an issue for either system. All you are doing is adding a longer process for the flow to take place and making that ground up by adding the extra oil needed.
 
Can someone please tell me how long of the braided steel lines are needed to do this mod and a round about price it would be to purchase the lines from summit racing. Thanks


Post #175, Page 12 for info on summit racing parts.
 
HUH? Can you explain.

Flow I don't think is an issue for either system. All you are doing is adding a longer process for the flow to take place and making that ground up by adding the extra oil needed.

Easy demonstration, get you 8 bendy straws, put 6 in your mouth and exhale, air comes out evenly from all straws right? Now pick one sraw, tape the other2 to it so the one straw is now 3 straws long, now take that straw and put 3 90* bends in it, now put the ends of all 6 straws in your mouth and exhale again. Check if flow is even. It won't be, less air will come out of the longer straw due to the extended line that causes more restrictions. Now since the other5 straws are short and straight, they can easily flow more air so the restrictions in the long line actually increases flow in the other5 because there is no for of regulation on any of the lines.

That make sense?
 
But with the bigbear cooler the oil is all forced through the cooler because its before the oil splits into multiple lines. So flow rate and pressure is unchanged on all oiling gallies.
 
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