Pulled Carb Apart and Cleaned...

[dreded]

So i completely disassembled the carb and cleaned it.. and while doing so I noticed my accelerator pump was stuck in the open position(spring collapsed) I freed it up but I am just wondering what affect this would have been having?

I cleaned the carb just for the hell of it so id understand where the jets go etc, I have to jet my Prairie 650 and figured it would be easier to get some understanding on the warrior since its much simpler.

Took lots of pictures as I was doing it so I could be sure I got it together correctly again and also because I know someone was looking for pics to do a write-up so feel free to use them.

Didnt take many after shots but here is a couple to give you an idea..

 

[elwood]

not sure of the affect the collapsed spring would have. My guess would be a rich/bog when you stab the gas. A good cheep mod for the acell spring is tho replace it with a stiffer one out of a clicker pen.

 

[mrjim0214]

wow dude,thats awesome, my carb is sittin on bench and i am kinda scared to get into it, where did you start? i got this warrior about 8 months ago and pretty much just rode it. These things need to be done, it runs great but it'll probably run alot better with some TLC

 

[dreded]

wow dude,thats awesome, my carb is sittin on bench and i am kinda scared to get into it, where did you start? i got this warrior about 8 months ago and pretty much just rode it. These things need to be done, it runs great but it'll probably run alot better with some TLC

I just removed all parts I could taking pictures as I went.. notice how I am holding some screws/jets near holes etc that's so I would know what hole they went in as I re-assembled It wasn't actually all that hard but the pictures where definitely needed.

Before you remove pilot screw be sure to turn it in till it seats lightly and count the turns so you know how many to turn it back out when re-installed.. mine was turned 2x

So removed all parts
Removed all o-rings and gaskets(the boot that goes over the accel pump was tough to pull off but went on really easy(I was worried about it)

Boiled parts in a pot with lemon juice for 20min(do this outside as it smells)

Clean lemon juice off under a tap(I actually used a bucket of water as my shop is lacking running water).. all the brass parts(jets etc) will oxidize but it wont affect performance..

I used a tooth brush while running under water to clean the carbs 100% but they where plenty clean without this step just thought the extra 5min was worth it to make them look new.

Then dry with compressed air which makes sure all the passages are clear etc, when I sprayed my jets I swear the holes doubled in size so they had gunk... but the quad ran decent... cant wait to see how it runs now lol

And just to show how well the lemon juice actually cleans I threw some bolts in for 5min

Before...

And After(without any scrubbing just dipped in a bucket of water)

Also the lid to the slides thats on the top of the carb when its on bike was coated in rust on top... the lemon cleaned it to it looked 100% new

 

[dreded]

not sure of the affect the collapsed spring would have. My guess would be a rich/bog when you stab the gas. A good cheep mod for the acell spring is tho replace it with a stiffer one out of a clicker pen.

I will definitely be doing that.. I actually never noticed that the accel pump was stuck when doing this the first time but I decided to consult the manual to see if it said how many turns out the pilot screw was out from the factory and then noticed it had a part in the carb pics that I never saw.. so I pulled it apart again and sure enough when I pulled REALLY hard the accel pump slide came out and low and behold there was the ball point pen sized spring that I couldn't figure out where it was before hand lol

Can someone tell me what the stock setting for pilot screw is and also if that needle in the pics is a stock needle.

 

[mrjim0214]

yea well i just took entire quad apart, you talk about pics? hundreds! i havent started putting it together yet but im sure ill b referring to them but actually it seems pretty simple (maybe cause i been staring at it for weeks lol) anyway ill prob get into carb tonite, im a firm believer in berkible 2+2 gum cutter, i may boil them also, what was your ratio water to juice?

 

[dreded]

yea well i just took entire quad apart, you talk about pics? hundreds! i havent started putting it together yet but im sure ill b referring to them but actually it seems pretty simple (maybe cause i been staring at it for weeks lol) anyway ill prob get into carb tonite, im a firm believer in berkible 2+2 gum cutter, i may boil them also, what was your ratio water to juice?

i just used straight lemon juice... my quad is also in 100's of pieces iv been sanding and painting and replacing bearings and bolts i think its going all together tonight after a month of it being apart.. the clymers manual is excellent as it has exploded views of every part so its easy to re-assemble if you need a reminder and the manual is only $25 on ebay or RockyMountainATV

 

[mrjim0214]

i got manuel and hundreds of pics, the pics in MY manuel seem so old, not to clear (copy rite 1995) they were great in there day lol. if you need pics let me know, to help if needed. Im almost done sandblasting frame, just took a break, painted some stuff last nite and they look so good I almost want to change color scheme, ill send a pic in a bit, what colors did you do? send some pics

 

[dreded]

i got manuel and hundreds of pics, the pics in MY manuel seem so old, not to clear (copy rite 1995) they were great in there day lol. if you need pics let me know, to help if needed. Im almost done sandblasting frame, just took a break, painted some stuff last nite and they look so good I almost want to change color scheme, ill send a pic in a bit, what colors did you do? send some pics

Last post here has all my after shots I took so far... Ill take a bunch more tonight
http://www.yfm350.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25320&page=2

I just went with original colours on metal with black on silver and im not going to bother painting the fenders as I am lazy and they will just look like crap again by the end of the season... I was planning to do a full rebuild of engine but it has excellent compression so since it never came out of frame the engine nor the frame got cleaned up 100% but I did sand and paint any rusty or exceptionally dirty spots.

 

[dreded]

so put the carb back on after doing the Spring mod.. and I was wondering when adjusting the pilot screw how long should it take to notice a change? it seems I can screw it in all the way in and all the way out without any noticeable change... if I screw it all the way in and tighten a bit it will kill the engine after 10-20secs or so but otherwise the pilot screw seems to do nothing.. Ideas?

Oh I forgot to say I was messing with pilot screw because it sounds like its running awesome now except when I punch it from no throttle to WOT it bogs and dies instantly if i press it so idle raises a TINY bit then JAM it to WOT it revs up fine. but the idle is already as high as one would want.. I will take a video tomorrow I forgot my phone at home today.

 

[Seafarer12]

Usually a bog off idle with a pumper carb is the accelerator pump not pumping. As far as your pilot screw I think starting point is 2 turns out.

 

[dreded]

So I cleaned my K&N today.. it was a little dirty to say the least lol

I made sure the accel pump was moving correctly and double checked that all passages where free of crap... but there is still a huge bog(it instantly dies) when stabbing throttle from idle to WOT adjusting the pilot screw makes no change to motor at all and neither does removing airbox lid.. but this is being done without a load as I dont have the rear axle in yet. It seems to run good otherwise..

I re-jetted my Prairie 650 today and its pilot screws have a instant noticeable impact on idle speed etc... so I figure the warrior should be the same... so what would cause the pilot jet/screw to have almost no difference even though it is clean etc?

Also should the jet needle be loose? it wiggles around a bit here is a video... its a bit looser than it looks in the video as it was hard to hold camera and nudge it





On a side note as I said I re-jetted my prairie 650 today.. it ran fine before I did but was a little rough on idle and on take-off but now the thing is insane, I can pull power wheelies doing 10mph(dont forget its a 4x4) I thought it had power before but now from a stop you have to be careful NOT to do a wheelie lol

 

[Rhyno]

One thing that I haven't seen in your pics, but is a common problem and done incorrectly, is the Fuel Screw. Not only does the Taper need to be polished with some ScotchBrite, but it needs to have all of it's parts. One of your Pics looks like the O-Ring is missing, buy the "Drip and Build-up" around the opening.

It is supposed to have a small washer, a small rubber O-ring, and a spring that keeps tension on them and the screw.

I have seen them assembled with a broken o-ring, missing spring and washer or both.

If your's are gone, you can get the correct and complete setup with Yamaha part numbers. When I replaced/repaired mine, it was close to $7.00 for the kit.

-Rhyno

 

[Rhyno]

So I cleaned my K&N today.. it was a little dirty to say the least lol

I made sure the accel pump was moving correctly and double checked that all passages where free of crap... but there is still a huge bog(it instantly dies) when stabbing throttle from idle to WOT adjusting the pilot screw makes no change to motor at all and neither does removing airbox lid.. but this is being done without a load as I dont have the rear axle in yet. It seems to run good otherwise..

I re-jetted my Prairie 650 today and its pilot screws have a instant noticeable impact on idle speed etc... so I figure the warrior should be the same... so what would cause the pilot jet/screw to have almost no difference even though it is clean etc?

Also should the jet needle be loose? it wiggles around a bit here is a video... its a bit looser than it looks in the video as it was hard to hold camera and nudge it....

Read the end of this....

It's got my "opinion" on air filters and K&N's

http://www.yfm350.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25511

.........Also should the jet needle be loose? it wiggles around a bit here is a video... its a bit looser than it looks in the video as it was hard to hold camera and nudge it

The needle needs a certain amount of movement, and looks fine. Remember that it is "Tapered."

But what was "Alarming" to me was the center of the Needle, in the video.

Why is it "Gray?" Has it been "SandBlasted?, ..Bent?....K&N Failure and the color is that of the dirt in your your riding area?.... Solder Repair?

-Rhyno

On Edit: Added the "Tapered" comment.

 

[dreded]

One thing that I haven't seen in your pics, but is a common problem and done incorrectly, is the Fuel Screw. Not only does the Taper need to be polished with some ScotchBrite, but it needs to have all of it's parts. One of your Pics looks like the O-Ring is missing, buy the "Drip and Build-up" around the opening.

It is supposed to have a small washer, a small rubber O-ring, and a spring that keeps tension on them and the screw.

I have seen them assembled with a broken o-ring, missing spring and washer or both.

If your's are gone, you can get the correct and complete setup with Yamaha part numbers. When I replaced/repaired mine, it was close to $7.00 for the kit.

-Rhyno

which pic looks like an o-ring is missing?

I assume what you refer to as the "Fuel Screw" is what iv been refering to as the pilot screw? It does have a o-ring and a spring didnt scotch bright it so ill try that... and I dont think I saw any sort of washer

the needle is like that because of the oxidization from lemon juice... I have a friend that has cleaned 100's of carbs with lemon juice and I asked him about it and he said its normal and wont affect a thing.

I agree with you on the K&N I actually have a twin air foam filter for it but I dont have a OEM filter cage so I cant use it.. I figured cleaning up the K&N was better than nothing for the time being until I track down a filter cage

I have a carb rebuild kit on the way so all the jets etc will be being replaced soon so we shall see what happens then but since it runs so well otherwise its got to be something "minor"

 

[Rhyno]

So i completely disassembled the carb .........

which pic looks like an o-ring is missing?

I assume what you refer to as the "Fuel Screw" is what iv been refering to as the pilot screw? It does have a o-ring and a spring didnt scotch bright it so ill try that... and I dont think I saw any sort of washer

the needle is like that because of the oxidization from lemon juice... I have a friend that has cleaned 100's of carbs with lemon juice and I asked him about it and he said its normal and wont affect a thing.

I agree with you on the K&N I actually have a twin air foam filter for it but I dont have a OEM filter cage so I cant use it.. I figured cleaning up the K&N was better than nothing for the time being until I track down a filter cage

I have a carb rebuild kit on the way so all the jets etc will be being replaced soon so we shall see what happens then but since it runs so well otherwise its got to be something "minor"

The second pic. I tried to "Capture" it.

The spring puts tension on the washer, the washer holds the O-ring in place and the O-ring seals the screw to the body of the carb and the circuit that fuel flows through.

If the washer is gone, it'll leak....... Look at the pic and see how the dirt is accumulated around the exterior of the opening?

Pilot screw/ fuel screw on a Warrior, but on other carbs the screw controls air/vacuum.

Here's an idea, Maybe just a temporary one, but I don't know how well it'll work...

Perfectly Clean the K&N, do not oil it, put your Oiled Twin Foam over the top. Basically, your K&N will act like a "Cage." Grease the Foam on the K&N, where it meets the intake tract, and you're sealed and better filtered.

I'd do it on mine, if I had nothing else and was a long way from nowhere.....

-Rhyno

 

[dreded]

I was thinking about burning the K&N Filter material out and then id have a cage left over but I think there is a flat spot on the back plastic of the K&N that holds it into place and the foam filter wouldn't fit over this nicely but im not 100% sure ill double check it

Iv been watching ebay for a cage, I missed out last night on one for $12 I saw it on my tablet and went to PC to go buy it but was already sold in that 5min time.. im sure there will be others

Oh so is the o-ring supposed to go near the HEAD of the fuel screw? or the tip? cause right now its near the tip(after spring further inside carb)

 

[Rhyno]

......the needle is like that because of the oxidization from lemon juice... I have a friend that has cleaned 100's of carbs with lemon juice and I asked him about it and he said its normal and wont affect a thing.........

Lemon juice is an "Acid" that keeps Hippies happy. Lacquer thinner just plain works, (and works great!) plus it evaporates when done. What does old gas turn into?....Lacquer.....

But this isn't an argument as to what works better.....

Why is the needle partially oxidized? Maybe, "oxidized" right where the air flows?

It would be worthwhile to look at it closer, maybe run a finger nail over it and see if you can feel any "steps" or "ledges" that are from "sandblasting" or running with a poor airfilter or without one.

The new "Jet Kit" is probably wasted money, though. Unless your's are damaged, you probably don't need them.

Good luck, though. I still want to watch it grow....

-Rhyno

 

[dreded]

I agree it probably is a waist but for $20 id rather know... trust me I spent $20 on a lot worse **** and the new gaskets etc cant hurt.. its all the jets and gaskets/o-rings etc

the needle is smooth feeling... as far as lemon juice goes its kind of a no hassle cleaning tecnique.. put carb in boil and walla its clean.. where as laquer or varsol etc you need to physically brush it and im lazy lol

 

[Rhyno]

.........Oh so is the o-ring supposed to go near the HEAD of the fuel screw? or the tip? cause right now its near the tip(after spring further inside carb)

Here is the order.....Screw, Spring, Washer, O-ring.

Put all of the parts on the screw and then put the screw in the hole.

If it isn't done like that, the O-ring tends to get pinched and damaged. If you don't use the washer, the spring tears the O-ring. If you don't use the spring, the screw backs out on it's own.

Once the O-ring is damaged, the fuel leaks out and also gives a variable rate fuel/air to the idle. But is dependent of engine temp, as to when this changes the ratio.

(Man........ where's Cody? he could use this info........)

I was thinking about burning the K&N Filter material out and then id have a cage left over but I think there is a flat spot on the back plastic of the K&N that holds it into place and the foam filter wouldn't fit over this nicely but im not 100% sure ill double check it

Don't burn it, because even if the K&N sucks it'll still filter better than nothing at all.

By oiling the twin foam and wrapping the dry/un-oiled K&N, you are improving the Filtration, at least by theory.....

But if there is a gap in the fitment, the piss poor K&N will still filter in that one area. But, realistically, the majority of the filtration happens everywhere else.

IF the fitment gaps are really that much of a concern, just put a few drops of oil on them, and you are still not "Over Oiled" because the Twin Foam is carrying the oil and dirt.

I know that I am opening the doorway for Arguments....... but remember it's just an Idea/theory and is untested......

-Rhyno