Gauging interest in building suspension components

[jonaddis84]

Someone recently asked me if I would build him a set of +1 camber adjustable Aarms for his warrior after looking at my website and seeing the arms I built for mine. I wouldnt mind doing such a service, but I dont actually own the equipment required (lathe, bender) to do so, I built mine while at school where we had the equipment.

If there was enough interest, only serious interest, possibly even paid upfront orders, I would go buy the necessary equipment and start building suspension components for warriors (for now) only.

They would be obviously comparable quality to other companies, but a little bit cheaper.

Anyway, check out my website www.geocities.com/jonaddis842003/warrior.html
and see what you think about the design/quality, ill try to post somemore pics of the aarms later today.

Other components would include swingarms, steering stems, etc.

 

[yakuza]

Those are some nice looking arms you made. If I didn't already have +2s I'd probably see if I could talk you into making some +3s...lol. I checked out your website last night and the work you did on that thing is way clean. Very impressive.....

 

[warriorspeed350]

yeah dude that was me, thanks for taking my advice, i would love to have a pair of +1's with camber ajusters...if i had the extra money i would pay upfront...maby after i move and i can get a job

 

[r350ridin]

hey man can you PM me a price estimate on +3s, i would be willing to pay upfront also.

 

[jonaddis84]

Make sure you read the post thoroughly. These are not for sale yet, nor will they be for sure at all.

I am simply gauging interest, so if you would want them it would be a while before you got them.

That being said....
What kind of features would everyone want?

DOM steel or 4130 Chromemoly tubing?
Long travel or stock shock length?
Forward or stock position laterally?
Ball joints and bushings for pivots?
All heim joints (rod ends...like mine are)?

Give me your opinions on these kinds of things. Ill say that using all heim joints would be the cheapest route, this only requires drilling your spindles out to 1/2".

4130 is obviously more expensive, but make sure you understand the differences between mild steel and chromemoly!
Chromemoly IS NOT LIGHTER than steel, it is stronger though, the reason you think it is lighter is because you can use thinner wall than DOM steel thus making it lighter.

The long travel and stock length isnt a big issue, they could be made either way, just want to see what the majority say.

 

[warriorspeed350]

i would want long travel or stock...whatever is easiest cause if u make long i can buy a set of yfz shocks and if you make them stock i can set her up with some banshee shoks

the cheap tubing and i hear heim joints suck and are high maintenence so i would want ball joints but what ever is easiest

 

[jonaddis84]

the cheap tubing and i hear heim joints suck and are high maintenence so i would want ball joints but what ever is easiest

Heim joints are the most accurate form of pivoting attachment, they have the least play, and stay that way longer, but do require attention. Which usually just requires spraying them down with lithium grease occasionally, especially after getting wet. Mine have been on there for a pretty long time, I dont take as good of care of them as I should, and they still work like new.

Ball joints would be fine with me for the ball-joint part (the spindle attachment), I would however rather use heim joints for the frame pivots, but it could be optional I suppose, have to research it somemore.

 

[warriorspeed350]

heim joints is fine, i lube all of my suspention components every wash

 

[yakuza]

People also don't realize it's possible to get as much travel with stock length shocks and heim joints as it is with some LT setups and ball joints. Balljoints limit the travel because they can only "tilt" so far before they bind. You can get a lot more movement out of the heim joints, which in turn allows you to use the full amount of travel the shock will allow. I'd definately go with the heim joints, but that's just my opinion......

 

[storydude1]

I think you better talk to a lawyer, and fill out the needed paperwork, before some idiot takes one of your arms, uses it in a way not designed for, gets hurt, and sues you.

 

[Guest]

IF your weld's are sturdy enough for racing, i'm sure you'll be able to sell alot.

Myself, i'd take a set of +2 just like your for stock shock's.

 

[jonaddis84]

The welds are good, I trust my life with them every time I ride mine doing 130mph.



What would you guys be willing to pay? As you can see the quality matches or exceeds that of other brands (and this was my first attempt, from scratch), but they wont have the name on them so they can be a little cheaper.

 

[storydude1]

You trust them with your life?

Good. Sell me a set, then I can injure myself with your product on my quad, and make millions off of you.

IF YOU GO ABOUT THIS WITHOUT TALKING TO A LAWYER, I'LL LAUGH AND POINT WHEN YOU ARE LIVING IN A CARDBOARD BOX.

BECAUSE IT WILL HAPPEN.

 

[Guest]

Around half price of aftermarket one's or a lil less than half price? Either was, your still gonna make money.

I'll buy two set's (maybe more) if you start making them.

 

[storydude1]

Here's a thought. One of your aftermarket Hiem joints you outsourced has a casting defect.

You pass it along to the end user. Hiem fails. Think they parents of the 15 y/o kid who is now a paraplegic will CARE ONE BIT that the hiems were outsourced, and used by you?

NOPE. They'll argue(successfully)that you released a dangerous, non-oem spec part, that was the result of the front suspension folding., and breaking poor jimmy's neck.
Ergo, you have no legal recourse in place, and Jimmy's lawyers are taking money from your GRANDCHILDREN.

Think it won't happen? There are hundredes of Lawsuits filed every month against small Fab shops....And without some legal recourse, hundreds of fab shops go under EVERY MONTH.

I've seen it in the 4X4 world, Racing world, and even standard aftermarket parts.

Ever wonder why there are warning labels on EVERYTHING?

 

[jonaddis84]

Settle down buddy, I havent even decided if Im making these at all yet, and youre writing a novel about how my life ended over some 15yrold kid ending up paralized...

Thanks for the concern, Ill cross that bridge when I come to it, my family has a lawyer, Ill talk to him if I decide to do this.

anyway...

What are you considering the average price of "aftermarket"? Are you basing it off say lonestar at around $800 or someplace cheaper at around $400-500

 

[Guest]

$400 to $500.

Place's like LoneStar, Wicked, etc.. They have a machine that does mostly everything. If they don't have the machine, they already have everything cut and place it out, on a jig and put together, sent to paint then packaged and sold.

Start thinking of the price $250 and work from there. At 250, i'd still by two set's, maybe not at the same time but i would by a second set if the first set turned out great.

If you do start fabricating them, i'll deffinatly take a set of +2's non-painted.

 

[dave76]

Jon do yourself a favor, set up a Limited Liability Company (LLC), not only will you be listed as has having a buisiness, but you'll also have the benifits of all the tax write offs, plus being an LLC your protected against getting sued. Outside of that, that Warrior is the sickest thing I've ever seen, screw the Raptor, that is a real 600cc bike, and the arms look awsome, great metal work.

 

[storydude1]

Settle down buddy, I havent even decided if Im making these at all yet, and youre writing a novel about how my life ended over some 15yrold kid ending up paralized...

Thanks for the concern, Ill cross that bridge when I come to it, my family has a lawyer, Ill talk to him if I decide to do this.

anyway...

What are you considering the average price of "aftermarket"? Are you basing it off say lonestar at around $800 or someplace cheaper at around $400-500

I can tell you this, there is about $50 in heim joints alone, $10 in fasteners, and about $50 in metal assuming non 4130. The materials arent that much, granted, but probably not many people have any idea how much work goes into building a set, that is why they cost so much.

Albeit, mine were a first attempt from scratch, but they took me almost a week working on them about 6hrs total a day. Would have taken less time but there was some waiting for others to use the lathe and bender at times.

Hey, I own my own business and there are ALL SORTS of things one does not think about. Hell, I do Mobile Scrap processing, and I pay roughly 10K in insurance a year JUST to be able to do that.

I'm just looking out for you, and don't want to see someone with great fab skills get screwed because he did not cover all the bases, or some sue happy parent tries to get rich on your dime, and sweat.

Oh, and if you are looking for a bender, www.pirate4X4.com has a group buy on the JD1,JD2, and Hossfeld clones. They undercut retail by 20%. Also, they ofer 30% off of the dies.

Also, check out OffroadFab.net They offer a bending software that makes tube work an eleventy billion times better, and easier. Bendtech software. Covers springback, angles, coping, ll the goodies. all one needs is a protractor, and a bender.

 

[jonaddis84]

Thanks man.

I will definitely be looking into what I need to do business wise, I know I couldnt bring in this kind of unrecorded income without getting in trouble anyway not being a business.

I dont know if $250 is going to cut it, I know I said cheap, but I didnt expect that cheap. Im not saying a LOT more than that, but I am a Mechanical Engineering student, and still work part time, so time is going to be a concern if I continue to work as well. Granted if Im going to have to have a two week delay in building these for people I cant charge out the ass, but well see...

First I need to start searching for a good used lathe and see how much thats going to cost me, call around for materials (cant keep buying them from onlinemetals.com in Oregon and paying crazy shipping $).

Keep the input coming though please, it definitely helps in deciding where to go with this.

Anyone think of any other parts you would like built for warriors?

People that are interested in heimjoint arms, would you also be interested in SKI spindles as an addon later? I wouldnt be able to make them for balljoint arms.