Ways to beat z400 in bottom-mid range power?

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Yes they are really expensive, and I am not sure if its worth the price, because I dont ride mx. I ride every day tight trails, but I feel its very tippy, and its annoying sometimes. I really cant see spending the money for shocks and a-arms.

So its a no on widening kits? Lol
 
[quote:32i3hk5d]... and I don't think it would give much, if any more torque than the stocker. The stock carb on the rappy is really good, unlike the warrior. You would be better off with a pipe/filter than an edel.

This is correct. And it may even lose some bottom/mid range compared to the BSR36 CV (which is one of Mikunis better designs, its an excellent carb).

A CV carb will give superior bottom and mid-range compared to a flatslide. Flatslides are better for top-end (more 2 stroke'ish in behavior).

Check out these topics...

http://yfm350.proboards31.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=reviews&thread=1157936844&page=1

http://yfm350.proboards31.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1186457596&page=1

[/quote:32i3hk5d]

So yall are saying the stock raptor carb is BETTER than an edelbrock. I can't believe that. If you think the throttle response is good I have to wonder what you are comparing it to. Maybe mine is just a dud, but it has never had that good of throttle response. Are yall comparing them from experience with having both (stock and edelbrock) on your quad? I'm just going on what I've seen from buddies after going to edelbrocks. I've never ridden with anyone who switched to edelbrock and was disappointed with the results.

You really lost me with "Flatslides are better for top-end (more 2 stroke'ish in behavior)." That makes it sound like 2-strokes are more top end machines and 4 strokes more bottom. My experience is just the opposite. I know four strokes have came a long way from what they used to be but they still don't have the bottom torque of a 2-smoke.
 
[quote:r4e20mgl]

This is correct. And it may even lose some bottom/mid range compared to the BSR36 CV (which is one of Mikunis better designs, its an excellent carb).

A CV carb will give superior bottom and mid-range compared to a flatslide. Flatslides are better for top-end (more 2 stroke'ish in behavior).

Check out these topics...

http://yfm350.proboards31.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=reviews&thread=1157936844&page=1

http://yfm350.proboards31.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1186457596&page=1

So yall are saying the stock raptor carb is BETTER than an edelbrock. I can't believe that. If you think the throttle response is good I have to wonder what you are comparing it to. Maybe mine is just a dud, but it has never had that good of throttle response. Are yall comparing them from experience with having both (stock and edelbrock) on your quad? I'm just going on what I've seen from buddies after going to edelbrocks. I've never ridden with anyone who switched to edelbrock and was disappointed with the results.

You really lost me with "Flatslides are better for top-end (more 2 stroke'ish in behavior)." That makes it sound like 2-strokes are more top end machines and 4 strokes more bottom. My experience is just the opposite. I know four strokes have came a long way from what they used to be but they still don't have the bottom torque of a 2-smoke.[/quote:r4e20mgl]

Yes 4 strokes engines have a broader torque range and the way the power is produced and put down to the ground is smoother as the engine isn't so on and off the pipe or rev happy. The 2 stroke engine produces alot of hp on the pipe but sinse half the power stroke is wasted, it makes the engine also have much less torque and a smaller power band which is much harder to drive. A 4 stroke will generally have more bottom end power then a 2 stroke.
When I added the flat slide carb to my fourwheeler it felt like it gave it more power in the upper mid range and top end.. felt a little softer on the bottom end.
 
When you have the stock carb running tuned for **** then yes any carb kit will run better that is tuned right for the engine.
 
When you have the stock carb running tuned for **** then yes any carb kit will run better that is tuned right for the engine.

haha, my carb is out of wack right now true enough.

I'd gladly gamble any day on a banshee or 250r in a drag race against your 366 4 stroke. It wouldn't even be close bud. I've got nothing against four strokes, but have you ever seen a four stroke beat a two stroke of similar displacement in a drag race? I agree the 4 stroke puts the power down smoother, but that is kinda my point. Two strokes simply have faster acceleration from my experience.

You still haven't answered my question. What is YOUR experience with edelbrock? Since you are so down on two strokes, I have to wonder how much experience you've had on them as well (not reading, but actual seat time).
 
I have to add one thing about the Edelbrock. I really like the performance and ease of tuning, but the one single thing that really bothers me with it sometimes is that it doesn't have a choke. It's not a big big deal because when it's so cold outside that I need a choke to start, I probably won't feel like riding anyways. But when I DO go to start in the cold it's frustrating, I really don't understand why a choke wasn't part of the design when they built this thing. I mean seriously, what kind of carb doesn't have a friggin choke on it?
 
So yall are saying the stock raptor carb is BETTER than an edelbrock. I can't believe that.

Better is relative... for bottom/mid range performance (torque), CV carbs are superior. You want top-end blast, flatslides are the way to go. What is better for you, well whatever your preference is.


If you think the throttle response is good I have to wonder what you are comparing it to.

The almost uncountable amount of CV and FS carbs I've tuned over the last 20 years... Mikuni's, Keihin's, and a few Lectron's.


Maybe mine is just a dud, but it has never had that good of throttle response.

Sure, its possible yours is a dud, or had tuning issues. In any case, FS carbs will always have a bit more 'snap' than a CV carb when they are tuned properly. Theyre two different animals, and each performs better in one area than the other.


You really lost me with "Flatslides are better for top-end (more 2 stroke'ish in behavior)". That makes it sound like 2-strokes are more top end machines and 4 strokes more bottom. My experience is just the opposite.

2-Strokes are top-end HP kings, thats there mechanical nature. You want to make power, you gotta spin'em up high. Been that way since the dawn of time. There is no mechanical way to tune them otherwise.

4-stroke engines can be widely configured via the cam(s). They are torque kings, but you can cam them differently, and give them top-end with less bottom end, or move the power-band around almost any way you like.

In strictly a physical way, 2-strokes are more efficient at making HP. It only take 2 piston strokes to complete a combustion cycle. A 4-stroke requires just that, 4 full pistons strokes to complete a single combustion cycle.

Each method has its own pros & cons, it just depends what ya wanna do, and how you wanna get there.
 
When you have the stock carb running tuned for **** then yes any carb kit will run better that is tuned right for the engine.

Heh, aint that the plain truth...
 
Well does anyone think its worth the money for a carb?

Better to get a cam for torque-mid rang power?

What else would improve that?
 
If you want more torque then just go to a higher compression piston. Dont waste cylinder wall and go to a 366 overbore kit (which actually isnt a kit in any sense) A wiseco should suit you fine and still maintain a good amount of reliability. There are better pistons than that, but not for the same price. However if you got money to spend you could go with a je or something.

I dont know why you think you have less torque than a z400 right now. Those things are pretty lame right off the bottom from what i noticed.
 
If you want more torque then just go to a higher compression piston. Dont waste cylinder wall and go to a 366 overbore kit (which actually isnt a kit in any sense) A wiseco should suit you fine and still maintain a good amount of reliability. There are better pistons than that, but not for the same price. However if you got money to spend you could go with a je or something.

I dont know why you think you have less torque than a z400 right now. Those things are pretty lame right off the bottom from what i noticed.


Alright will look into that.

I know I have more torque, but I want to to get it offline more, and then keep going cuz I got a lot of low-mid range power. Unlike the z, it will take more time to get it to full potential.
 
If you want more torque then just go to a higher compression piston. Dont waste cylinder wall and go to a 366 overbore kit (which actually isnt a kit in any sense) A wiseco should suit you fine and still maintain a good amount of reliability. There are better pistons than that, but not for the same price. However if you got money to spend you could go with a je or something.

I dont know why you think you have less torque than a z400 right now. Those things are pretty lame right off the bottom from what i noticed.

yeah.. they only got 11.3:1 compression, 4 valve head and 50cc more.

Also the more bore the more compression. So it's not just the 18cc more that will benefit you.
 
[quote:dun1uhmi]When you have the stock carb running tuned for **** then yes any carb kit will run better that is tuned right for the engine.

haha, my carb is out of wack right now true enough.

I'd gladly gamble any day on a banshee or 250r in a drag race against your 366 4 stroke. It wouldn't even be close bud. I've got nothing against four strokes, but have you ever seen a four stroke beat a two stroke of similar displacement in a drag race? I agree the 4 stroke puts the power down smoother, but that is kinda my point. Two strokes simply have faster acceleration from my experience.

You still haven't answered my question. What is YOUR experience with edelbrock? Since you are so down on two strokes, I have to wonder how much experience you've had on them as well (not reading, but actual seat time).[/quote:dun1uhmi]

I've raced a stock banshee and I beat him. If he had any mods what so ever he would have smoked me like I was going out of style. I really don't have to say any more then what griff said on this because he was spot on. And Yes I have riden many 2 stroke bikes and 4 wheelers. I personally can not stand driving them. I find they are no fun to ride, smell and sound like ****. Just my opinion. I do enjoy snowmobling.
Per cc you can make more HP on a 2 stroke engine because of the way it works.
When your at the drag races do you hear a 2 stroke lugging through the gears? NO.. all you hear is the thing reving to the moon shifting through the gears.. I wouldn't consider that low end torque or a smooth power band.
 
Looks, like I wont be getting the edelbrock carb, because its not a CV, its a flatside correct?

Anything else I can do to improve low-mid power without going into the engine just yet? I was hoping to wait till the summer for that.
 
Edelbrock is going to give you more snap because it's a smaller carb then the stock one. Easy to tune, but most carb kits are as IMO all jets are just as excessable. You just have to understand the circuits better. I think there are better carbs out there then the edel. FZR comes to mind if you want all out performance or Mikuni's RS style which in my opinion you'd be better off with a CV style carb as the warriors engine is more lower tech 2 valve slow reving torquer.
 
What is a running price for a good CV, that will bolt right up to my raptor 350? Also I don't want to have to guess the jets and things like that. I just want to have the jets sent with the kit, or be able to know exactly what goes in it, then just bolt right up for some good bottom-mid performance.
 
It does, oops. Lol. So then I basically have a good carb on it, no need to upgrade the carb?
 

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