Stock Shocks Updates - Maybe

[griff]

Hey guys,

I'm sending my Rap' 350 stock shocks to a friend of mine at Cogent Dynamic Motorsports. Hes a suspension specialist, and has a ton of resources for updating and improving shocks of ALL types. He's setup countless dirtbikes, streetbikes, and track bikes, and knows his ****.

He's gonna take a look at the fronts and rear, to see what can be done with them.

We're not to sure on the fronts, but they may accept a new tuned cartridge assembly that can be spec'd for rider weight and terrain preference.

The rear shock has a lot more hope, as it appears to be revalve'able with only a minimum of parts.

He also has access to a wide variety of springs, but is going to test the stock springs to see what their rating is. He's also gonna verify whether or not the stock front springs are true duel-rate, or progressive-rate.

IF these are all rebuildable (read: modifiable), he maybe able to offer substantial improvement over stock with minimal cost (compared to fork'n over big $$$ for aftermarket shocks).

Wont know anything for sure until he receives them and he can examine them, and take them apart. He'll get the fronts next week (I shipped them out today). Hopefully Monday I'll be able to ship out the rear shock.

Cross'n my fingers.....

 

[yakuza]

Nice. I'm still running on my stock rear which sucks ass. It would be sweet not to have to pay $500 and up to replace the rear. Let us know how it turns out.....

 

[griff]

We'll find out soon enough. If at least the rear shock has good/real potential, then fork'n out cash for just some after-market front shocks wont be so bad.

Pretty sure the fronts are an emulsion-only setup, and if their gas charged at all, its unlikely theres a separator system. If one of his suppliers has a cartridge or other parts where the guts can be effectively replaced, that would be awesome. Its possible of course, they may be hopeless.

 

[jasonp]

In an old dirt wheels mag that I had (now lost) talked about drilling a hole in the front shocks replacing the fluid with thicker stuff. I remember reading though in a later mag they didn't recomend doing this and would not give out any more info on it.

 

[slamdam97]

Nice. I'm still running on my stock rear which sucks ass. It would be sweet not to have to pay $500 and up to replace the rear. Let us know how it turns out.....

Banshee rear shock is a great improvement. They can be had cheap on ebay. Not as good as aftermarket, but WAY better than the stock warrior/raptor rear.

 

[dave76]

Hey it'll be cool to find out.

 

[griff]

The rear shock is actually a good overall design, not really any different than the Banshee's. The main difference is the Banshee is setup much better (valving, oil, etc).

The stock Raptor rear shock has a oil/gas seperator, external rezzie, etc. Its just that its config'd poorly. Chances are all it needs is better oil (and/or a different weight of oil), different valving, and a better/different nitrogen charge.

 

[yamarider]

In an old dirt wheels mag that I had (now lost) talked about drilling a hole in the front shocks replacing the fluid with thicker stuff. I remember reading though in a later mag they didn't recomend doing this and would not give out any more info on it.

How old of a dirtwheels was this? I'm pretty sure just about all quad shocks out there are pressurized with nitrogen. Drill a hole in your shock and you just ruined it...

 

[storydude1]

[quote:7plkomzi]In an old dirt wheels mag that I had (now lost) talked about drilling a hole in the front shocks replacing the fluid with thicker stuff. I remember reading though in a later mag they didn't recomend doing this and would not give out any more info on it.

How old of a dirtwheels was this? I'm pretty sure just about all quad shocks out there are pressurized with nitrogen. Drill a hole in your shock and you just ruined it...[/quote:7plkomzi]
.....Untill you tap threads in the hole you drilled, and thread a schrader valve into them and re-charge.....

 

[yamarider]

how would you do that without filling the shock full of metal shavings?

 

[bucklandyamaha]

i have been restoring my warrior and when i removed the coil springs off the shock bodies to sandblast them, i noticed that they are not nitrogen charged, and that they have fluid damping up AND down . although one of mine had zero damping, i just grabbed another shock out of the pile and took the spring off it , and it checked out fine so i used it. anyways my point is, to find out what was wrong with the one that didn't work i went up about 1- 1/5 inches from the bottom of the shock body and drilled about a 1/4" hole in it and i started pumping out all this black water that smelled like someones ass ( which was actually water-like old ass oil with no viscosity) , then i filled it up with diesel and flushed it out, THEN i decided that since i had several bottles of fork oil laying around that i would try re-filling this bitch, so i managed to get it refilled and guess what, with just my thumb over the hole,and pumping the rod back and forth it actually started feeling like a new shock or even better, amazing .... anyways i never bothered plugging the hole and using it , because i wanted to see how they built these front shocks internally. so i cut the end off of it, and was suprised to find a tiny 3/4 " round cartridge , i managed to pull the cartridge apart and the little piston has i think 4 tiny holes in it, and uses the same kind of ring that is on a engine piston , that's right a steel ring , no rubber seal here. so final point, i think the fluid change can be done succesfully, and there is no nitrogen in these wimpy shocks, just the rear.

 

[griff]

...and i started pumping out all this black water that smelled like someones ass ( which was actually water-like old ass oil with no viscosity)

Hmmm... just exactly how much ass have you smelled to be able to make this comparison? How much of that ass was "old" ass, and how often do you go around smelling ass?



Just mess'n with ya....

 

[bucklandyamaha]

ROFL, let me tell ya bro , that was some NASTY oil.

 

[storydude1]

how would you do that without filling the shock full of metal shavings?

The same way you drill and tap a hole inside something you don;t want to get shavings in.

Pack the bit, and tap with grease. the grease traps the filings so they stick to the tap/bit, and not fly inside the item being drilled/Tapped.

 

[griff]

Just a little update...

My friend has been disassembling the fronts from the Rap350, and they are as expected, emulsion only, no nitrogen gas charge at all. This setup is about as bottom-of-the-line as you can get for shocks.

Now we all knew they were lousy shocks, but the good news is that they appeared to use standard sizes for various parts, which means theres a better chances he can upgrade the guts. We'll know for sure by this weekend most likely.

The other thing are the OEM springs, apparently they are indeed true duel-rate, and from what he told me today, theyre actually high quality springs. Hes gonna test the rate(s) and see weight range theyre best suited for.

He's gonna throw one of the shocks on a shock-dyno tomorrow, so he has a baseline for damping effect (etc).

 

[dave76]

Hey this is pretty cool, keep us informed.

 

[klutchbuster350]

That is pretty damn cool what you guys are doing.

 

[keto]

Just a little update...

My friend has been disassembling the fronts from the Rap350, and they are as expected, emulsion only, no nitrogen gas charge at all. This setup is about as bottom-of-the-line as you can get for shocks.

Now we all knew they were lousy shocks, but the good news is that they appeared to use standard sizes for various parts, which means theres a better chances he can upgrade the guts. We'll know for sure by this weekend most likely.

The other thing are the OEM springs, apparently they are indeed true dual-rate, and from what he told me today, theyre actually high quality springs. Hes gonna test the rate(s) and see weight range theyre best suited for.

He's gonna throw one of the shocks on a shock-dyno tomorrow, so he has a baseline for damping effect (etc).

Cool!

 

[griff]

OK guys, the verdict is in on the front shocks... they suck.

Unfortunately, none of the typical after-market shock components quite fit/replace the OEM equivalents. The shock body itself is the main problem, nothing quite fits right in it, on it, or around it. They are truly disposable shocks, the only redeeming quality is that they have excellent springs.

At this point hes going to build some new shocks for me (from scratch), using the OEM dual-rate springs off the originals. They'll have floating separator pistons (i.e. no big need for an external rezy with that system) and rebound damping adjustability, and will be totally serviceable and revalvable by any suspension shop.

For durability he's gonna use aluminum end caps but a steel (black powder coat) steel body tube. He's not real fond of aluminum bodies, as the insides tend to get worn down easily, and especially if they arent anodized.

These are gonna be pretty high-end shocks for severe use, I should have them next week sometime. Not sure what the pricing is gonna be yet, but he'll be able to build these less expensive than other high end shocks (and I mean the pairs of shocks that are usually $500-$900).

Rear shock gets shipped to him Monday.

I'll keep ya updated....

 

[yakuza]

That's what I'm waiting to hear about, the rear shock. Already pretty much knew the fronts were total garbage....lol.