1998yamahawarrior
Well-Known Member
How would that cam compare to the .390?
Camshaft specs
- Thread starter dave76
- Start date
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DeadLastRacing
Well-Known Member
the .390 is an over all upgrade over stock. More pep throughout the whole spectrum.
this .413 is described as Improves torque and acceleration and that would be on top of the 390 over all cam. Think of it like like building blocks. 390 is an upgrade, and this 413 is a honed in acceleration and torque on top of that, and then the 430 would be on top of that. Ect.
All I know is that I'm going to feel like I have a whole new engine. Gainingg back my acceleration that I lost with the 430 race cam I have been running.
this .413 is described as Improves torque and acceleration and that would be on top of the 390 over all cam. Think of it like like building blocks. 390 is an upgrade, and this 413 is a honed in acceleration and torque on top of that, and then the 430 would be on top of that. Ect.
All I know is that I'm going to feel like I have a whole new engine. Gainingg back my acceleration that I lost with the 430 race cam I have been running.
1998yamahawarrior
Well-Known Member
So Im assuming thats the one that miami was talking about that is only listed under the newer rappy's right? For what Im thinking for my motor biuld, this sounds like one of the better choices for me.
DeadLastRacing
Well-Known Member
yeah, its only listed under the newer Rappy 350 on there site but I called and talked to them today and they can make this on a warrior cam.
956 Grind is what its called. Part #:80-691. You have to specifically ask for it to be on a warrior cam core thou.
It's like ordering from the secret menu at McDonald's. It also might be safe to say that I'm the 1st person ever to run this cam in a warrior. I'll let yall know how I like it.
956 Grind is what its called. Part #:80-691. You have to specifically ask for it to be on a warrior cam core thou.
It's like ordering from the secret menu at McDonald's. It also might be safe to say that I'm the 1st person ever to run this cam in a warrior. I'll let yall know how I like it.
1998yamahawarrior
Well-Known Member
Ok good deal man.
'00 WO-YA!
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Lookin forward to hearing those results Dead!
miami1
Well-Known Member
your a true "trailblazer" ............ sorry i couldnt resist
miami1
Well-Known Member
im glad your getting this cam. i think you will be able to give a better review than i can. i did so much at one time that i cant really tell whats what lol. i know it runs great and if i can ever get enough seat time in to dial the jetting in il let you all know what the juice is like
DeadLastRacing
Well-Known Member
Hahah. I did claim in a WARRIOR.
lynxgen
Well-Known Member
doesnt anyone make those circle charts anymore?
if i could see those, i would understand what these cams are doin a whole lot better.. guess im kinda a visual sorta person.. guess i'll have to get out a sheet of paper and make my own..
wonder if i have some blank sheets in my old school work still... hmm..
but the gist of it is, the bigger the cam the better, but keep in mind where you want your power/torque?
i was just trying to make heads and tails of what cams are what, as everyones recommending the .430 so guess i'll put it on the graphs, n maybe one or two others to compare.. lol
if i could see those, i would understand what these cams are doin a whole lot better.. guess im kinda a visual sorta person.. guess i'll have to get out a sheet of paper and make my own..
wonder if i have some blank sheets in my old school work still... hmm..
but the gist of it is, the bigger the cam the better, but keep in mind where you want your power/torque?
i was just trying to make heads and tails of what cams are what, as everyones recommending the .430 so guess i'll put it on the graphs, n maybe one or two others to compare.. lol
jasonp
Well-Known Member
From the specs alone you can see that it's smaller duration and overlap then the .390. It really just has a little more lift.
Basically this new cam by web is inbetween the stock warrior cam and the .390".
This would be a great woods cam where bottom end power is needed and throttle response. Won't have quite the pull as the .390 in the mid range and top end.
DeadLastRacing
Well-Known Member
So this .413 I bought isn't comparable to the mega .415? Your cam knowledge is now making me second guess my purchase. Did I **** up? Your the cam guy, I'm learning.
They told me the duration is 250. And the 232° @50 gets higher as it goes down in degree(?) I wast trying to get the number at 40° so i could try and compare it to the .415. They guessed it to be around 243 or so at 40, which is right around the mega 415 area.
They told me the duration is 250. And the 232° @50 gets higher as it goes down in degree(?) I wast trying to get the number at 40° so i could try and compare it to the .415. They guessed it to be around 243 or so at 40, which is right around the mega 415 area.
jasonp
Well-Known Member
Let's look at just the data.
web's
.390" has 244/244 degrees of duration at .050" 36 degrees of overlap
.413" has 232/232 degrees of duration at .050" 24 degrees of overlap
Mega's
.415" has 246/245 degrees of duration at .040" 33 degrees of overlap
Stock
.382" has 233 degrees of duration at .040" 17 degrees of overlap
So what is this data telling us...
Now you can really see how much smaller the Web .413" is then the rest of them (other then stock of course). Now this is not a bad thing depending on what kind of riding you do. It will have quicker throttle response and more torque then the others. It won't have quite the mid and top end the Web .390 has.
I was going to start talking to Web about a custom cam but since I've got the raptor 700 I've lost the erge.
I think a good or perfect cam is in the smaller range like what you bought with some more lift say around .430-.440" or so. This engine really was never designed to make big hp numbers in the over rev. The two valve, low tech head design doesn't help anything either. Really a smaller duration, high lift cam will be great for guys with ported heads...don't want to much lift as that will just wear out seats and guides.. It might not have as much peak hp but have more overall avarage hp.
Hurry up and get your bike back together, I want to hear what you think of it from the seat of the pants feel.
DeadLastRacing
Well-Known Member
so, perhaps this was a good decision after all then, as I am also getting my head ported and polished.
I tend to ride in tight woods and hilly areas and enjoy that type of riding the most. I dont have to be the fastest in the open areas hell, Im a warrior owner afterall, but in the occasional race setting, the open parts are there. Long as I have my acceleration back and a bit of added torque, I'll be happy. I think I''ll stick with this cam.
How can we break down lift and duration numbers to better understand them and there affect on performance and benefits.
IE the .413 I have has a larger lift but smaller duration. Whats happing in the engine during the firing sequence as compare to whats happing during the 390's shorter lift and longer duration?
and is it true that the duration at a degree does in deed get larger as the duration number goes down? Why are some quoted at 40° and others at 50°?
if you insist on lagging behind me:tup:
DeadLastRacing
Well-Known Member
I'll pick up any of the good parts you lose on the way as you wobble your quad to pieces because you couldn't square up your Swingarm conversion. :loco:
Anyways, back on topic, comparison to effect of lift and durations to engine performance and increases.
duneracerweston
Well-Known Member
i got a newbie question
do i need a puller to change cams?
i wasn't the one to change the cam so i didn't get the experience of pulling the stoker
do i need a puller to change cams?
i wasn't the one to change the cam so i didn't get the experience of pulling the stoker
DeadLastRacing
Well-Known Member
I've pulled three of them out no problem. Its getting the bearing off the cam that is the issue.
DeadLastRacing
Well-Known Member
I did a little research on Lift and Duration, here's some of what I found so far.
Increasing lift has exactly the same effect as increasing the cam's duration, except that you are not actually altering the opening and closing points of the cam lobes. Increasing duration allows more air in & out, and so does increasing your maximum lift (the former increases the size of the valve opening while the latter simply increases the amount of time that opening is open). A lot more goes into determining a cam's maximum lift (or rate of valve opening) than does its lobe timing, though. Maximum lift's main enemies are mechanical in nature, and have to do with a) coil bind and B) valve-to-piston interference.
Coil bind is what you get when you attempt to open a valve so far that the spring that normally holds the valve closed can't compress any further (thecoils end up coming in contact with each other until it is nothing else than a solid column of spring steel). Valve-to-piston interference is a no-brainer, since a valve that opens too far stands a good chance of comingin contact with the top of the piston at TDC (the common solution being tomachine valve pockets in the piston dome to provide clearance). That's the easy part. A cam's maximum lift doesn't just determine how far the valves lift off their seats, however. It also determines how *fast* the valve moves off the seat to the point of maximum lift and back down onto the seat again (commonly referred to as "ramp speed"). A high lift, high duration cam lobe is gentler on the valve train than a high lift, lowduration cam because the ramp speed isn't as quick. High ramp speeds coupled with weak valve springs can result in a) "ski jumping" just after maximum lift is achieved and B) valve float.
"Ski jumping" occurs when the lifter is accelerated off the tip of the lobe so fast that the lifter actually leaves the surface of the lobe and becomes "airborne". This will affect valve timing-- specifically altering the moment that the valve closes. It also means that the valve will come downon the valve seat harder than normal. "Ski jumping" often occurs at high RPMs without sufficient valve spring tension and when matching high ratio rockers on camshafts designed only for use with the stock 1.1:1 ratio.
Valve float happens when the valve isn't placed back on its seat gently enough, causing it to bounce once or twice before the valve spring tension holds it down firmly. This is "A Very Bad Thing", as it will pound out seats, break the heads off of valves, and be generally rough on the rest of the valve train components. Maximum lift isn't the sole contributor to ramp speeds, however. The overall silhouette of the lobe is the key.
The camshaft is the heart of an engine, and it influences all the other factors of your engine design.
Increasing lift has exactly the same effect as increasing the cam's duration, except that you are not actually altering the opening and closing points of the cam lobes. Increasing duration allows more air in & out, and so does increasing your maximum lift (the former increases the size of the valve opening while the latter simply increases the amount of time that opening is open). A lot more goes into determining a cam's maximum lift (or rate of valve opening) than does its lobe timing, though. Maximum lift's main enemies are mechanical in nature, and have to do with a) coil bind and B) valve-to-piston interference.
Coil bind is what you get when you attempt to open a valve so far that the spring that normally holds the valve closed can't compress any further (thecoils end up coming in contact with each other until it is nothing else than a solid column of spring steel). Valve-to-piston interference is a no-brainer, since a valve that opens too far stands a good chance of comingin contact with the top of the piston at TDC (the common solution being tomachine valve pockets in the piston dome to provide clearance). That's the easy part. A cam's maximum lift doesn't just determine how far the valves lift off their seats, however. It also determines how *fast* the valve moves off the seat to the point of maximum lift and back down onto the seat again (commonly referred to as "ramp speed"). A high lift, high duration cam lobe is gentler on the valve train than a high lift, lowduration cam because the ramp speed isn't as quick. High ramp speeds coupled with weak valve springs can result in a) "ski jumping" just after maximum lift is achieved and B) valve float.
"Ski jumping" occurs when the lifter is accelerated off the tip of the lobe so fast that the lifter actually leaves the surface of the lobe and becomes "airborne". This will affect valve timing-- specifically altering the moment that the valve closes. It also means that the valve will come downon the valve seat harder than normal. "Ski jumping" often occurs at high RPMs without sufficient valve spring tension and when matching high ratio rockers on camshafts designed only for use with the stock 1.1:1 ratio.
Valve float happens when the valve isn't placed back on its seat gently enough, causing it to bounce once or twice before the valve spring tension holds it down firmly. This is "A Very Bad Thing", as it will pound out seats, break the heads off of valves, and be generally rough on the rest of the valve train components. Maximum lift isn't the sole contributor to ramp speeds, however. The overall silhouette of the lobe is the key.
The camshaft is the heart of an engine, and it influences all the other factors of your engine design.
Yamaha Fan
Member
Hey so i've been doing alot of reading on cam's for these things and found that these engines have a 1.14 rocker ratio right?
So my question is this.
The stated lifts these cams are advertising is that the lift on the lobe or is that what you'll end up with after the rocker ratio has been added in?
So my question is this.
The stated lifts these cams are advertising is that the lift on the lobe or is that what you'll end up with after the rocker ratio has been added in?
