Just bought a blown Raptor!

[graveller]

Hello all,

a new Finnish member reporting in! I just bought a plated 350 raptor, haven't yet picked it up though. It's red/black 2005, the engine is toast, it was at the dealer and someone was trying it out and rod snapped, went through the cases... So I'll be doing some shopping soon ;D

It's rather hard to find a decent plated quad here (if yer not looking for the chinese stuff which is after all pretty decent). Options are pretty much Derbi DXR 250 and... well some chinese brand. Of course there are 450's and 700's, also 4x4's but they're in a whole different price range (street tax just magnifies it). I was just thinking aloud when looking at the 10000€ can am 450 ds, when the dealer pulled the 350 out of his sleeve, got it for real cheap (for a plated at least).

Winter is coming and I don't have a car, so I need some vehicle to move. I have a plated xr400 and a crf450 for track, but they don't really get along on the street with snow, so got a quad... anyway I'll be driving to school and work. If I can have fun with it, always the better!

I was actaully very close to get one of these http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/9177/3regy4.jpg, its a shineray 250stixe.

But anyway I'll be needing at least cases and rod. I was thinking maybe I'd get a stroker kit at the same time, would I get a new crankshaft so there would be no need to separate the crank by myself? I've driven lots of quads and never come across one with "enough" power, so the more the better.

Tell me what You think, I'll be probably making another thread as I get to take pictures of the actual thing and rebuilding.

 

[bomber315]

welcome to the site! youll probably have to get that motor apart before you can get to excited... your liable to find you need more parts... hahaha im not really sure what else to tell you right now

 

[warriorgirl09]

i got a complete top end off a warrior (pretty sure it fits your bike) well for thet matter i got the complete engine on't the wrong is the ear that sticks out for the front sprocket gaurd is busted but the cylinder, head, piston, rod, crank is all great and runs real strong

 

[graveller]

your liable to find you need more parts... hahaha im not really sure what else to tell you right now

Yea, sure. I bought it as is, without even seeing it. If all else fails, I can put a new chinese (with emission homologation) motor in it and still wont cost much more than a used chinabike. These things need to be MOTd every year, so I can't really put just any engine in it lol. But I see some crankcases real cheap on ebay, dollar is really weak at the moment. Well see on saturday when I get my hands on the engine, but I've been told head, jug (which I don't believe), even piston are ok. I think it's clear that big end bearing seized and caused the failure.

 

[DeadLastRacing]

Yeah Yeah Yeah.....rub it in our American faces that you can ride them on the streets over there! hahahahah First off welcome, and best of luck to yah on your re-build and secondly, check out this build http://yfm350.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=elite&action=display&thread=9558

 

[yamarider]

A stroker probably isn't the way to go for a street machine, you're turning high rpm's constantly and strokers put more of an emphasis on low power, and it's hard on them to rev them high all the time. You gotta consider the piston speed, it's going to be traveling faster and further at any given rpm than a stock stroke engine. If you want more power a 400cc big bore would be a more reliable and better performing option for street use.

And keep that chinese crap out of that good yamaha! Putting a chinese engine in anything is an insult, i wouldn't put one in my weed whacker.

 

[graveller]

Thanks for the tips, got the bike today. It's pretty bad. I guess the piston just gave up, it has done 7000km's which is not much, but still enough to kill a piston. The rear sproket looks as small as possible, but that's the way it goes with quads, didn't remember to check the countershaft sprocket, but I'm guessing it's been driven at pretty high rpm's constantly and that weakened too much. It does not show signs of seizing, big end is ok, piston has a big hole in it and it's cracked in all directions, cylinder is missing most of the front wall, cases have a pretty big hole on the front side. Small end is cracked and piston pin has disintegrated from the piston. Head has some damage, but valves look and feel good, there are valve markings on the piston though.

So I'll bee looking for cases, cylinder, rod, piston at minimum. I think I'll replace the valve(s) just in case. The main reason I was looking at fst 446 kit, is because I'd get most of the parts and work done, I'm sure they'd be happy to press the sleeve in if I bought a cylinder for them too. Does anyone know the dimensions of their kit? 400cc (87mm?) seems to be the biggest sleeve that fits and stroking it to 446 isn't too bad...

So far this one is not a keeper, for more than this winter maybe, I try not to get too involved (Kevin's quad o.0). I try to get some pics (everyone loves pics) soon.

 

[graveller]

Does anyone know if CWR stroker kit require core crank? http://www.cycleworksracing.net/warrior.htm Or does the price (700$) include new crank+rod?

If it does, that's probably what I'm going to do, 700$ for crank, rod, sleeve and piston. 60-100$ for cylinder and 100-200 for cases. Total less than 1000$ w/o shipping. Does anyone have any better ideas?

I need those parts anyway, crank is ok, I'd just need a rod, but rod+fitting here will be more than a new assembly. Used cylinder will need a sleeve anyway.

 

[graveller]

Ok it's done. This is not a keeper, I bought cases off ebay shipped to my door for 250$, jug w/ brand new +1mm sleeve + wiseco piston and gaskets for about 300$ and pair of new valves. I will go ask what they want for crank rebuild around here and decide whether to get a whole new crank or just a rod. I don't like the idea of a used crank, but I ain't dumping more money in this so I hope I can use the old crank and a brand new rod.

What do you you think, what bearings and sealings should I get? At least main bearings for sure, but are there any others which will wear out early?

Oh and here are the pics I promised

I have no experience on this kind of failures, what should I do about the head? I'll be replacing valves for sure, but how do I tell if seats or guides are damaged? Exhaust valve has a pretty big dent on it, but the valve itself does not appear to be bent.

I don't know the circumstances of the failure, I guess no one does except for the guy who wrecked it. I was told it happened "at traffic lights at low rpm..." Looks to me more like forcing it to a gear or two too low and over-revving like crazy....

 

[91warrior]

wow at least when they break something, they break it right, thats just incredible.

 

[yamarider]

Well there's your problem! A little JB weld and that'll buff right out! Or maybe not...

I'm not an expert with repairing major damage like this, my solution when something is that bad is to just get a complete running used motor and keep the old one for parts or sell it to get some of your money back, it can be hard to tell how much could have been damaged with all those parts flailing around inside the case. I can say one thing though, that **** didn't happen at low rpm's like you were told, you gotta be revving one of these things to death to do that unless something is already hanging by a thread waiting to fail. My guess is somebody downshifted at high speeds into way too low of a gear and forced the engine to over-rev.

At a minimum I would replace the valves, it doesn't look like the head took much damage but i don't think that valve could have been hit hard enough to dent it without affecting it in other ways, like weakening it and bending it. It probably wasn't hit hard enough to damage the guides from the way it looks.

Look over the crank closely for any kind of hairline cracks or signs of stress, you'll probably be safe to re-use it if it looks ok. The 350 isn't known for any kind of accelerated bearing wear within the engine, you'll have to replace the crank bearings but I say leave everything else alone if possible unless you notice abnormal wear on them. Make sure you take a careful look at every gear, every bearing, and every shaft when you have it part, you could have easily gotten bits of metal from that carnage down in the bottom end and between gears, breaking them off.

 

[warriorgirl09]

hnn... bet that was a fun ride! haha

 

[graveller]

Update on the crank, rebuilding will be around 150$, so I ordered a used crank, at least it can't be worse than that... We inspected the crank and it seems ok, it does have damage all around from bits and pieces stuck between it and cases, but nothing major. IMO crank this heavy and sturdy is a bit overkill for stock 25hp.. But I have the major parts now + a sealing set. Still missing crank bearings but those I can get locally. So far repair has cost me less than 500€. I will be paying some import taxes though, at least the cases because they are the biggest, 22% of the price.

Btw. just looked a t the yamaha site and only street legal new yamaha (with valid homologation in EU) atm. is the 350. msrp 10600€.... that's about 15000$. I consider this a pretty good deal after all...

I thought of getting a new motor, shipping it is pretty difficult. Air freight would be around 500$. Sea would be less than half, but the I'd have to have someone to check and send it to me because it will take longer than the paypal money back thingy time. And in both cases I'd be paying full tax and also customs fee because the shipment is so valuable 22% + maybe 5-10%.

 

[tyler]

dang did it blow the guys legs off when that happened