Figuring out which wires should be a ground

[Frankenstein's-warrior]

As title says. I'm having issues with my 88 converted to 91 harness. I've been having issues with no spark. Come to realize that if coil is unhooked I get spark through orange wire but once hooked up it doesn't. Coil is new and I have swapped with a known good coil. I also found out tonight that if coil isn't bolted to the chassis the voltage will stay where before, the minute I plugged orange wire in, it would cancel the signal and when I would unhook it I would get nothing. If I plugged it in and then unplugged it without cranking it still would give me voltage. So I'm wondering if I'm having issues with a wire being grounded that isn't supposed to be. I say that since it seems to be normal to get continuity to ground when the coil is hooked up since my other atv does the same. Backstory: every single electrical part on the ATV besides the neutral relay(bypassed to see if it was faulty, it's not), the voltage regulator(some have said unplug it and it will start, it didn't), and the reverse switch (some have said to ground green/white wire out but mine has around 5v going through it so I unhooked it since people say that's bypassing it). Every other electrical component is brand new including harness and cdi. I just have no clue why the spark gets cancelled and won't send again if coil is bolted down and grounded out. It's made me really regret spending all the money I have when I could've got the same result leaving it alone and cob knobbed together from previous owner. Hoping someone can point me in direction of something that labels the grounds of the harness or someone who would have an idea on it. Also the only wires not hooked up which don't have a place to go is a green/black which is coming off ground side of reverse light, and a black ground. Both of which are in the stator plug area of the loom. Tying green/black to the chassis lights up reverse light so it seems to need to go to a switch of some kind. The black ground I'm not sure of or if it's important. If anybody has any suggestions besides going through everything and just trying to hook things up how they should be id appreciate it. I've gone through everything. Made sure all plugs are good. Made sure everything is hooked to right spots and wires match to each side. I just think there's a wire tied in somewhere in the loom that shouldn't be.

 

[Frankenstein's-warrior]

Anyone?

 

[PineyPower]

I think the four of us that are active here are stumped.
I'm pretty good at electrical diagnostics but only when I can get my hands and eyes on it.
If what I'm reading is correct though, I think the green/black (actually green/blue) goes down to the neutral switch under the shifter. Why it lights up the reverse light could just be a simple switcheroo or you have the thing in reverse, or your reverse switch wiring is backwards too. In any case it won't let the starter turn, not cut ignition.
The black ground wire probably goes to ground, no need to complicate it.

 

[PineyPower]

This is a silly question but is your one way bearing backwards/stuck and or is the flywheel the correct one for the stator?

 

[Frankenstein's-warrior]

I think the four of us that are active here are stumped.
I'm pretty good at electrical diagnostics but only when I can get my hands and eyes on it.
If what I'm reading is correct though, I think the green/black (actually green/blue) goes down to the neutral switch under the shifter. Why it lights up the reverse light could just be a simple switcheroo or you have the thing in reverse, or your reverse switch wiring is backwards too. In any case it won't let the starter turn, not cut ignition.
The black ground wire probably goes to ground, no need to complicate it.

So I have a sky blue wire coming out of the loom that is for the neutral light. It works as it should. The green/blue in schematic goes to reverse light as well. The flywheel would have to be correct way as the ATV did run awhile back but somehow previous owner used a 88 harness and a 90ish yfm250 cdi and somehow made it work. Also stator wires coming out matched those of a 90-95 warrior stator. I bought a new one and everything matched identically so I presumed flywheel had to be 90-95 since it did previously run and I know flywheel and stator have to match year wise to fire right. I havent pulled the flywheel so it should still be the same and the pulsing of the orange wire kinda tells me its right. Just confused why it will "spark" all through the coil out the boot if the coil isn't grounded but technically won't literally spark I guess cause it's not grounded out and arcing.? Not sure if that's correct terminology. That is what made me think a wire in the loom or out of the cdi is actually hot when it should be a ground maybe and it's messing the whole system up the minute I try to fire it up. At this point I can get voltage good enough out of the spark plug boot to fire the engine but it won't spark since I can't mount the coil down and actually ground it out. Its like I can see the finish line but it slowly inches away. Is there any videos that would help you guys narrow it down? I can take video of it pulsing voltage as I crank and I can show meter readings of it not grounded out and the moment I do ground it out. I feel like early 90s warriors had something above the chain for something to do with reverse as a switch as I look at schematics for the green/black and it shows it going to 3 different "switches" and I have two which is the relay, and the reverse lever but it seems whatever green/black should hook to is not there. Either way I've read it doesn't need hooked up and just pulling in clutch would still allow it to start. Im with you though. I'm genuinely stumped and about to just start parting it out on here or selling it whole and never looking back. It's just a really nice ATV and would hate to see it parted out when it has a lot of life left

 

[PineyPower]

Yeah it'd be a real kick on the nuts to sell it and have someone fix it in 10 minutes just because you overlooked something.
" but it won't spark since I can't mount the coil down and actually ground it out."
Did they change how it mounts on the older models? Feel like I'm missing something here that seems inportant
Mine bolts up right under the nose plastic, with a ground on the left side

 

[Frankenstein's-warrior]

Yeah it'd be a real kick on the nuts to sell it and have someone fix it in 10 minutes just because you overlooked something.
" but it won't spark since I can't mount the coil down and actually ground it out."
Did they change how it mounts on the older models? Feel like I'm missing something here that seems inportant

I'm not sure if they changed something or not. I know the 88 cdi goes under the piece in the front. 91 it seems to go under the seat area because of plug locations. Orange wire does lead up to same area but not sure if there was insulators maybe to prevent that and it is meant to get grounded elsewhere? I'm not sure. I've tried looking up different keywords and locations but haven't found much. Have also had an impossible time finding a genuine 90-95 wiring schematic. Everything I find is more focused towards earlier and later. I've found one that was similar that I've based my stuff off a few times but nothing seen for the coil besides one where it looked like it had a separate black wire that grounded the coil but I think it was just to chassis so pretty much the same as what mine would be just bolted down. Is there a way to get the coil to get a spark without grounding the coil or is that the only way the coil is able to output a spark? Just not sure if there's a way to do it since all grounds end up on the frame and engine to the battery. But yeah I'd really be annoyed if I sold it and someone solved it. Main reason why it's still not online for sale. But also don't want to slowly stop working on it and it ends up parked again and sitting even longer.

 

[PineyPower]

Ground the balls out of that coil, every diagram I see shows multiple grounds coming off it.
Looked on mine and couldn't see where exactly it ends up but if you have one hook it up.
Also I don't know if this diagram is any different or better than what you have already but there ya go.
Also an interesting tidbit, the older models it makes note that the starter will turn with the engine stop switch set to off. It might be worth checking into the switch, see attached screenshots

 

[lukesmith2221]

I bought a 87 last year that was mostly parted out. Last guy said he put a new coil on. (His was all black). That turned out to be the problem. I bought the orange from the jungle website. That solved it and it fired up. I did everything, new relays and N and Reverse switches. I still have trouble with it though. I haven't actually rode it besides a few times around the yard.

 

[Frankenstein's-warrior]

Ground the balls out of that coil, every diagram I see shows multiple grounds coming off it.
Looked on mine and couldn't see where exactly it ends up but if you have one hook it up.
Also I don't know if this diagram is any different or better than what you have already but there ya go.
Also an interesting tidbit, the older models it makes note that the starter will turn with the engine stop switch set to off. It might be worth checking into the switch, see attached screenshots

Yeah my scrambler has like 3 sets of ground spades running to the bolts. Yeah I haven't seen the grounding circuit diagram. That's probably what I need and maybe I can make something work to get it going. I've tried grounding the plug. I haven't tried grounding the coil to the battery and trying to leave it isolated off the frame. I'll see what I can figure out with that. Thank you

 

[Frankenstein's-warrior]

I bought a 87 last year that was mostly parted out. Last guy said he put a new coil on. (His was all black). That turned out to be the problem. I bought the orange from the jungle website. That solved it and it fired up. I did everything, new relays and N and Reverse switches. I still have trouble with it though. I haven't actually rode it besides a few times around the yard.

I've swapped a coil off my other running ATV and had same issues. I have an orange "high performance" one on it now but my other is just a generic oem style

 

[Frankenstein's-warrior]

Ground the balls out of that coil, every diagram I see shows multiple grounds coming off it.
Looked on mine and couldn't see where exactly it ends up but if you have one hook it up.
Also I don't know if this diagram is any different or better than what you have already but there ya go.
Also an interesting tidbit, the older models it makes note that the starter will turn with the engine stop switch set to off. It might be worth checking into the switch, see attached screenshots

On the first diagram showing the whole system. What's the difference between the reverse switch and the lever switch?

 

[Frankenstein's-warrior]

Ground the balls out of that coil, every diagram I see shows multiple grounds coming off it.
Looked on mine and couldn't see where exactly it ends up but if you have one hook it up.
Also I don't know if this diagram is any different or better than what you have already but there ya go.
Also an interesting tidbit, the older models it makes note that the starter will turn with the engine stop switch set to off. It might be worth checking into the switch, see attached screenshots

So I just went through the ignition system troubleshooting. According to spec my ignition coil is out of spec and my source coil and pickup coil are out of spec. I'm getting like 400s for my source coil and like 319 for my pickup coil. I will probably end up putting my old one back on for now. I think it was within spec but not sure why my coil and stator/pickup are both reading out of spec. I don't really want to dump more money on parts if these aren't actually bad.

 

[lukesmith2221]

So I just went through the ignition system troubleshooting. According to spec my ignition coil is out of spec and my source coil and pickup coil are out of spec. I'm getting like 400s for my source coil and like 319 for my pickup coil. I will probably end up putting my old one back on for now. I think it was within spec but not sure why my coil and stator/pickup are both reading out of spec. I don't really want to dump more money on parts if these aren't actually bad.

Actually if you do have an '88 Key on the Newer harness that might be the prblem. I think mine is 4 wires. All not connected ON. OFF then closes the connections. Newer might be different.

I got a Ricky Stator, Stator after 1 Ebay stator, both read a little higher then Spec'd(320 and 400 sounds right). I think they would both work. It did run after I got the orange ignition coil. Reverse and neutral, brass switches are the same part. My issue was only 1 little spark on the first throw of the stroke.

-I saw 2vintage on youtube, have a Starter run backwards because the magnets were broke and touching or 1 was in upside down. If you haven't checked your starter clutch, best to take a look. Mine was broke but still ran. and it forced the starter to spin with it. Actually if you do have an '88 Key on the Newer harness...

 

[Frankenstein's-warrior]

Actually if you do have an '88 Key on the Newer harness that might be the prblem. I think mine is 4 wires. All not connected ON. OFF then closes the connections. Newer might be different.

I got a Ricky Stator, Stator after 1 Ebay stator, both read a little higher then Spec'd(320 and 400 sounds right). I think they would both work. It did run after I got the orange ignition coil. Reverse and neutral, brass switches are the same part. My issue was only 1 little spark on the first throw of the stroke.

-I saw 2vintage on youtube, have a Starter run backwards because the magnets were broke and touching or 1 was in upside down. If you haven't checked your starter clutch, best to take a look. Mine was broke but still ran. and it forced the starter to spin with it. Actually if you do have an '88 Key on the Newer harness...

So key is new and was ordered and I believe listing stated it work for most early years. I wrote the people I got the cdi for as the service manual points towards a bad cdi although mines new. I never could find anything specifically stating my issues under the specific conditions or anyone replicating similar. So we'll see once I get a new cdi. If that doesn't fix it, it will probably go to a small cycle shop to get fixed