Which way to build her up.. ?

[lynxgen]

so im getting around to being ready to rip my engine out and apart.

But if i gotta go through all that trouble of ripping her back out and apart, then theres know dang way im fixing it up and puttin her back together and wrestling her back into the frame in stock form!

So as it is, like they say, theres no replacement for displacement.

I've read around and purused the forums for a long time now, although its been a while, and im a bit fuzzy.

as it is, im thinking bigger bore, and stroker...

I mean seriously, who doesnt want to be able to brag, "I gotta a bored out stroker.."

anyways, to get to the point, im looking for recomendations as to which route to go.

On one hand, I want the most jam n power i can stuff into her..
On the other hand, I dont want to get into too much for reliablitly issues..

Id lean a lil more towards power and torque than reliablity, but then again, i dont wana have to rebiuld it every year either..

as it is, big bear oil cooler mod will be getting done, and i already need a new exhaust n header... (My supertrapp spit its guts out goin down the trail, and my header blew a chunk of itself out the side one day, and has been patched.)

Im also thinkin a new carb is in order, as mine floods out or something everytime ived tried to catwalk it, soon as i stand it up on its grab bar it dies..)

so I guess what im lookin for is some ideas and recomendations as to which way to go with the engine.
It would be a shame not to fix her up and put on that twist throttle i got for a gift for building the lil bro in law a derby car.. lol

shes also got a stage one hotcam in her, but that can be changed to suit the rest of the engine build. wouldnt mind getting the valves etc redone anyhow, and they probably need it.

i dont know if i should get the exhaust/intake ported? that may be something else i could hande myself if i can find some decent info on it..

as for my riding, i spend most of my time in the bush- we have some great trails around here! i guess it would be kinda like a "Hare-Scramble" .. i tend to ride hard and fast, lotsa twisty tight corners, mainly sandy trails, some good straight sections, and then theres the big main trail as well to get to the other trails n all that, which usualy tends to be a 6th gear flat out rip.
(Unless your idiot cuzin smokes one of the gates..)

so yeah, I've already sunk too much money into her to get rid of it even if i wanted too, and aside from the engine, everything else is in good condition, the only thing other than the engine is the upper a-arm, front bushings have a minimul amount of play in em, not even enough to take on yet. so I may as well bite the bullet, and fix her up good, and get a few more years outta her.. I mean i wont be able to buy a new machine for what it'll cost me to fix her up!

but yeah, anyways..

:atv:

~L~

 

['00 WO-YA!]

Hmm, we can suggest ALOT man but since you wanna keep it reliable I'm thinking a mild upgrade in displacement, like a 379. Oh yeah, you can go way bigger than that but this should keep it azure bit more reliable. Compression should be close to 11:1 with that setup so you'll be able to run pump.
I'm thinkin maybe a Web .430 for cam, good springs & what not & have someone reputable do a P&P.
There are ALOT of options for carbs, the question is how much do ya wanna spend!? Keihin offers a king or you can piece something together. Don't forget the lil stuff, proper tuning, a +4 advance key, etc, etc. That's just one recommendation man, you can get wilder but I'd rather advise conservatively for this one.

 

[bones]

x2 the 379 it still has good reliablity yet is still nice and snappy but the piston they offer for the 4mm stroker is only 9.2:1 compression ratio. thats why i went with custom JE piece ... IMO i think the 430 would be to big as it is a top end cam ... i would mostly go with the mega 415 if had to do it again

 

[beastlywarrior228]

I wonder if you could use a fst piston with a hot rods crank and i think .430 would be perfect

 

[duneracerweston]

379 stroker
no base gasket
+4 key
39mmFCR carb off of a yfz 450
A GOOD port job
FMF PB Header
HMF silencer
A GOOD intake setup IE UM racing FSR box and filter
14/40 gearing
+1 intake valve kibble spring set white GET THE TITANIUM VALVES
a .415 mega or .430 pow roll would be good cams


that would make something to hang onto right there :tup:

 

['00 WO-YA!]

I'm likin that, I shoulda mentioned a custom piston for raised compression, my bad I said the Web .430 b/c displacement tames cam timing, I don't want it to be confused with the Powroll .430 "race". That cam has ALOT of overlap & Will bleed off useable compression. It has even more overlap than the Mega .450 I bought. With the 12:1 366 the Mega shouldn't make it a low end dog. Look in the cam stats thread in tutorials & you'll see what I mean. In all honestly the Web .430 in a stroked engine Will act very much like a Web .390 in a stock stroke engine.

 

[lynxgen]

Hmm, we can suggest ALOT man but since you wanna keep it reliable I'm thinking a mild upgrade in displacement, like a 379. Oh yeah, you can go way bigger than that but this should keep it azure bit more reliable. Compression should be close to 11:1 with that setup so you'll be able to run pump.
I'm thinkin maybe a Web .430 for cam, good springs & what not & have someone reputable do a P&P.
There are ALOT of options for carbs, the question is how much do ya wanna spend!? Keihin offers a king or you can piece something together. Don't forget the lil stuff, proper tuning, a +4 advance key, etc, etc. That's just one recommendation man, you can get wilder but I'd rather advise conservatively for this one.

the +4 key, is that up on the cam, or off the engine? just curious.. (I assume the cam? it is to advance the timing correct?) just wondering, how many degrees would a single tooth jump be? prolly would have to count the teeth and figure it out..?

as far as tuning, aside from building it right, and selecting good parts to compliment each other, theres pretty much only tuning the carb right? i mean there isnt a computer or nothing to chip etc.. so far as i noted..?

perhaps a better coil to deliver better spark?

and when i say reliable, it doesnt have to last forever, but i would like to get at least 2 or 3 seasons outta it.. hehe

I'm likin that, I shoulda mentioned a custom piston for raised compression, my bad I said the Web .430 b/c displacement tames cam timing, I don't want it to be confused with the Powroll .430 "race". That cam has ALOT of overlap & Will bleed off useable compression. It has even more overlap than the Mega .450 I bought. With the 12:1 366 the Mega shouldn't make it a low end dog. Look in the cam stats thread in tutorials & you'll see what I mean. In all honestly the Web .430 in a stroked engine Will act very much like a Web .390 in a stock stroke engine.

im just wondering if i should stroke it, or just go with bigger displacement, one or the other or both..?

its been about a year since i went to school last time, which was all about engines for 2 mnths.. i should totaly ubnderstand about he overlap and scavanging and all that.. I kinda do, i understand lift and duration etc.. i need a refresher!! lol

I was thinking about gettin a valve job done, she could prolly use it.

when i replaced the cam last time i the valves and seats LOOKED all good, although i replaced the tappets and nuts or adjustors or whatever.. lol

the ones that where in there where pretty beat down, one side had prolly lost a couple hundreds clearance..

as far as compression goes, i do wanna stick to pump fuel, Premium is fine, i think thats what i was running anyhow, in an attempt to keep her running a hair cooler.. i dont make enough ethanol to run in the quad..

as for a carb, It would be easy to jsut find one thats off another carb, such as duneracerweston's suggestion of a 39mmFCR carb off of a yfz 450.. thats somethign i may be able to find used, or off a scrapped machine, or auto(ATV/Bike) wreckers, and if not just go to a dealer/shop and order one up.. another thing is, how does the different carb link up cable wise? I have a twist throttle kit for mine, and would realy like to get that on there.. (Ever since I rode buddys honda 450 several years ago with a twist throttle I loved it! I been itchin to have a twist grip quad!)

what would you guys suggest is the next step up from the 379 stroker?

anyone have some links to some quads done up with particular builds/kits?
IE a 379 stroker, etc etc...

I've seen tonnes of exhaust comparisons, and ppl playing around on youtube, but you never realy know whats inside the engine!

also, at what point in power/building up would a person wana beef up the clutch?

I mean seriously if im gona do it, im gona try n do her right... i dont wana have to rip stuff apart any more than I have too, especialy cuz i built the engine and now the clutch just wants to smoke and burn itself out...

Im gona go do some more browsing n seeking etc while i await the replies! lol

And sorry for the long-ass posts! lol

~L~

 

[lynxgen]

alright been doin some reading and seeking etc..

answered a few questions..
I would say a stroker is the way to go, so far as the warrior engine is, more so than bigger piston/bore, if avoidable. problem is i chased links and googled etc etc and found very little in way of places to buy much of what i was looking for, and half the links were half-ass and had nil for info, or you couldnt actualy find the product.

the +4 key actualy adjusts the flywheel, so it advances the spark itself, while retaining the relation of the cam and crank

now heres what im lookin at, what stroker kits, if any are for stock bore? is the 366 a stroker with stock bore? and the 379 mentioned here? I havent ripped her open yet, so i may need to have it bored or re-honed anyhow..

i dont realy wanna have to bore out the case for a slipper either, thats gettin beyond my ambitions.

also when it comes to carb, what about the 84mm edlebrock (I think it was) i got the impression it could be tuned and all that by simply turning screws.. im sure theres jets to be changed out, but seems to me like it can be fine tuned or something from outside.. ?

~L~

EDIT:
Whats the deal with these? cdi boxes, different ignition advance curves... would they be better than running with a 4+ key? or would the two together be better? (Not the two boxes, one of these boxes, (Multi-curve one?) and the +4 key..??

http://www.motosport.com/atv/QUADBOSS-CDI-BOX-MULTI-CURVE

http://www.motosport.com/atv/QUADBOSS-CDI-BOX

I know as the engine speeds up in revs, that sparks gotta get in their sooner and fire quicker to do the same job as it does at lower speeds n all that, keep the flame front at peak performance and everything, get that full power fuel burn goin on..

 

[duneracerweston]

Way tomany questions for me to answer tonight I will do my best to answer tomorrow morning

 

['00 WO-YA!]

K, let me se how many of thesed I can get. 366 is a stock stroke 2mm overbore. Hotrods is one of the most common stroker cranks, I'm certain they're on ebay. Might have to contact JE or Weisco for a custom high compression piston. If you want a twist throttle & a FCR, THAT'S EASY, GET A KIT FROM A USED YZ 450 from ebay, most of the time you can get cable & twist with it. For the CDI's, flip a coin, you'll get mixed reviews on those. Me personally, I just got a advance key.

 

[duneracerweston]

the +4 key, is that up on the cam, or off the engine? just curious.. (I assume the cam? it is to advance the timing correct?) just wondering, how many degrees would a single tooth jump be? prolly would have to count the teeth and figure it out..?

as far as tuning, aside from building it right, and selecting good parts to compliment each other, theres pretty much only tuning the carb right? i mean there isnt a computer or nothing to chip etc.. so far as i noted..?

perhaps a better coil to deliver better spark?

and when i say reliable, it doesnt have to last forever, but i would like to get at least 2 or 3 seasons outta it.. hehe




im just wondering if i should stroke it, or just go with bigger displacement, one or the other or both..?

its been about a year since i went to school last time, which was all about engines for 2 mnths.. i should totaly ubnderstand about he overlap and scavanging and all that.. I kinda do, i understand lift and duration etc.. i need a refresher!! lol

I was thinking about gettin a valve job done, she could prolly use it.

when i replaced the cam last time i the valves and seats LOOKED all good, although i replaced the tappets and nuts or adjustors or whatever.. lol

the ones that where in there where pretty beat down, one side had prolly lost a couple hundreds clearance..

as far as compression goes, i do wanna stick to pump fuel, Premium is fine, i think thats what i was running anyhow, in an attempt to keep her running a hair cooler.. i dont make enough ethanol to run in the quad..

as for a carb, It would be easy to jsut find one thats off another carb, such as duneracerweston's suggestion of a 39mmFCR carb off of a yfz 450.. thats somethign i may be able to find used, or off a scrapped machine, or auto(ATV/Bike) wreckers, and if not just go to a dealer/shop and order one up.. another thing is, how does the different carb link up cable wise? I have a twist throttle kit for mine, and would realy like to get that on there.. (Ever since I rode buddys honda 450 several years ago with a twist throttle I loved it! I been itchin to have a twist grip quad!)

what would you guys suggest is the next step up from the 379 stroker?

anyone have some links to some quads done up with particular builds/kits?
IE a 379 stroker, etc etc...

I've seen tonnes of exhaust comparisons, and ppl playing around on youtube, but you never realy know whats inside the engine!

also, at what point in power/building up would a person wana beef up the clutch?

I mean seriously if im gona do it, im gona try n do her right... i dont wana have to rip stuff apart any more than I have too, especialy cuz i built the engine and now the clutch just wants to smoke and burn itself out...

Im gona go do some more browsing n seeking etc while i await the replies! lol

And sorry for the long-ass posts! lol

~L~

alright been doin some reading and seeking etc..

answered a few questions..
I would say a stroker is the way to go, so far as the warrior engine is, more so than bigger piston/bore, if avoidable. problem is i chased links and googled etc etc and found very little in way of places to buy much of what i was looking for, and half the links were half-ass and had nil for info, or you couldnt actualy find the product.

the +4 key actualy adjusts the flywheel, so it advances the spark itself, while retaining the relation of the cam and crank

now heres what im lookin at, what stroker kits, if any are for stock bore? is the 366 a stroker with stock bore? and the 379 mentioned here? I havent ripped her open yet, so i may need to have it bored or re-honed anyhow..

i dont realy wanna have to bore out the case for a slipper either, thats gettin beyond my ambitions.

also when it comes to carb, what about the 84mm edlebrock (I think it was) i got the impression it could be tuned and all that by simply turning screws.. im sure theres jets to be changed out, but seems to me like it can be fine tuned or something from outside.. ?

~L~

EDIT:
Whats the deal with these? cdi boxes, different ignition advance curves... would they be better than running with a 4+ key? or would the two together be better? (Not the two boxes, one of these boxes, (Multi-curve one?) and the +4 key..??

http://www.motosport.com/atv/QUADBOSS-CDI-BOX-MULTI-CURVE

http://www.motosport.com/atv/QUADBOSS-CDI-BOX

I know as the engine speeds up in revs, that sparks gotta get in their sooner and fire quicker to do the same job as it does at lower speeds n all that, keep the flame front at peak performance and everything, get that full power fuel burn goin on..

ok so lets get started from the top!

The +4 vitos degree key advances the spark by advancing the flywheel 4 degree

all there is for tuning is a carb and jetting no cpu's ecu' cdi' that you need tou bother with just the jetts in the carb

a better coil will show slight throttle responce but better then stock, i wouldnt spend the cash unless the stocker died on ya

its a 4 stroke it will last that long unless your over revving or running crap gas mine will stay for about 3 seasons then it will need valve seals and rings and a clutch

BB/ST = less torque more HP
SB/LS = more torque less hp and less max rpms

James will need to explane valve lap i still struggle with that one

you have it apart and are rebuilding it a valve job is a goooood idea especialy with bigger valves

that next paragraph bothers me did you set the valves? those tapets and jam nuts are so they can be adjusted correctly for the motor

if your building a pump gas bad to the bone motor then your gonna wanna keep it below 12:1 compression ratio

if you want a true twist throttle that gives you full pull get a carb and throttle off of a YZ450 dirt bike its the same carb as the yfz but it is designed for a twist throttle

from the 379 stroker there is the 397 that you can find on ebay by HOTRODS thats a 7mm stroker and 1mm overbore then from there you can go to all bore and get a 400 or 410 by CWR but it will need bored cases and are bad about over heating but im sure thats fixable then from there there is the fst 446 and cwr 460 and then there is a 500 setup that can be done but thats huge on these motors personaly id stay 410 or lower

for exhaust its realy a close race every one has their opinions but hmf, white bros e series and yoshi seem to be the main favorits

for the clutch hmmm thers not much you can do there other then plates pads and springs and you dont need to change it till its burnt out



next post

i feel ya post a list of parts your looking at and maybe we can help!

Yup you got it!

the 366 is a all bore motor its a .080 or 2mm over big bore kit
the 379 is a 4mm stroker with a .040 or 1mm over big bore
the 397 is a 7mm stroker with a .040 or 1mm over big bore
the 400 and 410 are also all bore
the 446 is a 10.25mm stroker and .120 or 3mm big bore motor
the 460 is a 11.5mm stroker and if i remember right its .140 over more but dont quote me on that

then your wanting a 366, 379, 397 motor anything bigger needs the cases bored

84mm HOLLY HELL!!!! 39 is as big as you want to go on a stock stroke motor and 40 is as big as i would go on a stroker!

i run a RM stator CDI with the +4 key works great most people have bad experiences with the rm cdi but ive had good luck with it 3 years and no problems

the warrior is built like that but the spark advace is so far retarded on a warrior +4 degrees and a cdi and your are still in the clear


hope this helps ya man!

 

[87warrior917]

The edlebrock carbs, if you can find one for the warrior are 36mm. SUPER EASY to tune. You got one main needle and a knob to adjust that needle and thats it!

 

['00 WO-YA!]

Wow, that's a post, lol! Overlap is simply the amount of time the valves are open together. The more overlap, the more compression that bleeds off, thus the reason for needing more compression. Overlap occurs with longer durations & tighter lobe separation. Shorter duration cams tend to build better lowend torque while falling off on the high side. In a nutshell ever camshaft is a compromise of power somewhere in the powerband. Making the most usable power throughout the powerband is what you're looking for.

 

[lynxgen]

The edlebrock carbs, if you can find one for the warrior are 36mm. SUPER EASY to tune. You got one main needle and a knob to adjust that needle and thats it!

this intrigues me! lol
how about the yfz carb mentined here? whats it like to tune? i just hate havin to pull the dang thing off the engine to change jets, although i did get to be pretty good at it.. lol

Wow, that's a post, lol! Overlap is simply the amount of time the valves are open together. The more overlap, the more compression that bleeds off, thus the reason for needing more compression. Overlap occurs with longer durations & tighter lobe separation. Shorter duration cams tend to build better lowend torque while falling off on the high side. In a nutshell ever camshaft is a compromise of power somewhere in the powerband. Making the most usable power throughout the powerband is what you're looking for.

and dont forget about scavanging.. lol.. im curious, does anyone know the actual efficiency of the stock warrior engine?

And thanks for the heads up on the yz450 carb

Dunner thats some great info, helps alot. Answers a load full of my questions.
(You should type up a sorta infor page/guide regarding all the different setups and such and stickie it! woulda saved me hours of searching the forum and googling Warrior/yfm 350 this n that lol)

I dont know whyi said 84MM for the carb, too much reading about too many tigs i think.. (84MM is a common piston size for the warrior, i confused meself/wasnt quite thinking straight )

i think the initial suggestion of the 379 realy is the key setup for me.

Now i gotta try n find the crank and piston etc.. I'd rather go with the other brand versus the Wiseco (JE wasnt it?) as its supposed to be lighter?

the 379 setup uses stock rod correct?

I think i ran across the 4mm crank last night while searching, but it was out of stock. this worries me.. lol

but at last, thanks to everyone whos replied with their wisdom, i dare say i have a plan semi formed in my head..
cant wait to get my income tax back now... big huge 3D tv, and a score of warrior parts, here i come! lol

:thanks::slayer::atv:

~L~

Edit:

duner said "that next paragraph bothers me did you set the valves? those tapets and jam nuts are so they can be adjusted correctly for the motor"

what i ment was, that i replaced them because the one side (Intake i think it was) the top had been hammered so much, the tappit? had a roundedness to it, and the valve had a divet in it..prolly added a several thous/hundreds to the lash.

 

[bones]

the 379 doesnt use the stock rod but it comes with a hotrod on it and a custom JE piston will run you about 300 bucks

 

[bones]

hotrods crank

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/YAMAHA-WARRI...ors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b8ef054e

and hotrods piston

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/YAMAHA-WARRI...ors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b8ef1550

 

[lynxgen]

holy crap! I didnt know summit sold atv/bike parts etc.. lol.. check it out:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRI-16-3784/Application/

I don't know for sure, but id guess its prolly overpriced? its only the 2nd place i found i can get one tho..
and at least now i have the part number.. now to search again on google.. lol

i've now found several places, also a few with the +7mm stoke... hmm...

EDIT:

hotrods crank

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/YAMAHA-WARRI...ors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b8ef054e

and hotrods piston

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/YAMAHA-WARRI...ors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b8ef1550

yeah, i seen those.. been browsing evilbay for all things warrior.. (Thats the other place i found em.. well there was one other, but outta stock.. lol)

 

[duneracerweston]

Post up the list of parts your looking at/for and we can find em for ya

 

[lynxgen]

Post up the list of parts your looking at/for and we can find em for ya

i think ive pretty much got her figured
and i been looking at so much stuff from anything im curious about, to looks fancy, to builds power to maybe i could need or want, or... or... lol

but the gist of it is, to focus and get back to the neccesities:

hot rods 4143 crank
hot rods P3001 piston,
and a new set of bearings. lol

i dont get why hotrods dont just sell it in kit form since you HAVE to use thier piston with their crank/rod..

altho i guess it is nice in the event of a piston melt down or bearing failure instead of buying the whole kit again.. but tey could sell a complete kit at a slight discount.. lol

of course theres other things i know i'll need, gasket set etc
stuff to do the big bear cooler which i know plenty about and know where all the info is already, kibble white valves etc

the other thing i gotta do is track down a shop to do the machining work.. i might know a place where the last shop i worked at sent everything.. they should be able to do small engine stuff too..

im still kinda mulling back n forth tho.. 379, or 397... hmmm... this decision is getting heavier in each hand..

I did find one place online that was quite abit cheaper than the rest, like $270 to $290 ish as opposed to the 350-390 for the crank

i guess summit is about the best price aside from one place, (Other than the bay, but i always have problems ordering from there.. 100% fail ratio.. I may see about getting someone else with plenty of bay buying experience to get from there for me tho..)

the other option is, i'll just go to the local repair stores and dealers and see what kinda price they'll bend me over for.. sometimes it aint that much more, and well worth it for the simplicity of it all.. lol

I did find a dealer/distributor for hotrods here in alberta.. still have to order it from them, but it would be here quicker, and i could just phone em up for it.. lol.. but the price isnt anything to brag about through them so far as i could tell..

anyways, its pretty much just a matter of gettin me dang taxes back..

if i wasnt heading to the city to watch the oilers smash the redwings this weekend, id be tempted to go down to the ole mans and rip the lil blue n white devils heart outta her and dig into it.. lol

maybe i'll do that the following weekend, bring the engine back home with me and setup shop in my porch.. ole lady will kill me of course but hey, im the one that pays the bills and rent.. lol

And i got one more question:

browsing around, i seen recoils/pull starts for sale for the warrior, and even an engine with a pull start on it..???

mine doesnt have one, and sure as hell cursed about that once or twice..
(Also, i cant seem to Pull/push start mine either.. it just doesnt work.. the wheels turn, but the engine dont turn over or something.. it was freakin weird and realy bugged me.. had to get it tugged back to camp once and charge it off the generator .. what a pita that was!!)

so anyways, is it only certain years of warriors that can have a pull start, or can i pick one up and slap it on mine??

also found some kewl stuff regarding the yz450 carb.. hehe, but i'll save that for another day when/if i actualy get one.. lol

~L~

 

[beastlywarrior228]

Youll need an old decomp head for the pull conversion and do the 397. Also what exhaust are you running and do you have a good air filter set up