Can't get this 87 running perfect...

[sickofit]

Ok...I have 2 warriors..an 87..and a 97..

The 97 runs awesome,stock piston,stg1 hotcam,Uni filter,HMF Exhaust,45 pilot,150 main,160 psi compression cold with throttle open

The 87 has new stock bore White Bros 10:5:1 piston,stg1 hotcam,Durablue foam filter,HMF exhaust,45 pilot,150 main,190 psi compression cold with throttle open...but is a dog compared to the 97...:argh:

Gearing is one tooth smaller on front of 87,so essentially has the same gearing as the 87 has a 1" longer swingarm.

Both have new carb boots.Both have had both clutch and parking brake sensors bypassed

I've been pulling my hair out with this thing trying to get it to run right....quadruple checked timing(new chain),valve lash,tried stock and hotcams settings,different carbs,etc

Is a bear to get started cold,pull the choke out just a tiny bit,and it will start after a while,if you pull the choke out to even its first setting,it will roll over a couple times then let out a huge backfire...everytime..Its a lot louder\poppier out exhaust,even though both same,fresh repacked mufflers.

So it runs,idles fine...but just doesn't have the snap my other one does...the 97 would smoke it...

I always thought it was carb related..it had an edelbrock on it to begin with,I thought I just couldn't get it tuned.So had an extra stock carb,got it all cleaned up,new parts..same deal...:argh:...So the other day I pulled the complete carb off my 97,cable,box and all,and it still acts the same...huge backfire with choke,etc...:argh:

It also blackens the plug,which would seem rich,tried different sizes mains and just seems run worse...adj pilot,etc...Plug in 97 is perfect nice tan.

I swear it almost seems like timing or ignition timing is off,so again last night I check crank\cam timing...perfect...pulled out the timing light...started her up,and I get a nice bright "F" through the timing hole,so ign timing seems perfect...WHAT THE HELL..??..!!...it seems like all fuel in cyl is not being burned..

So whatcha think..??..only use 91 octane with no ethanol..which lots of people state is fine with the 10:5:1 piston

Can a weak pickup coil cause these symptom...and this damn 87 has 2 of them..anyone know if one of the 2 can go bad,but still run,giving a weaker spark..??

Tried ohming them,but being a 87,the wires don't match whats in the service manual..it has 3 whites in one plug...a blue,a green,a yellow and a white in one plug...a single red bullet plug ...and a single what looks like brown bullet plug.

I did see in a couple of jasonp's old posts about his needing retarding of timing a bit,using an adj cam gear to run best.

Hey Bones...you happen to know which wires to ohm on the 87,and what they should read..??...I figured the 3 whites in the one connector would be the same,and they read fine in all configs,just need to know which are the 2 different pickup coil wires,and the source coil wires.

Kinda leaning towards a new stator,but hate to shell out $200 and have the same results.

If I advance or retard the timing chain by 1 tooth,does anyone know how many degrees that is approx..??..Do I risk contacting the piston\valves being off one tooth either way,with the high comp piston..??..Guess I could spin by hand first.

Anyone really know how the 2 pickup coils work,compared to the newer ones with only 1 pickup coil..??

Lemme know thoughts guys....:atv:

 

[bones]

i think its a rich condition what is the air fuel screw set at on the 87

i ask cuz the 87 and 97 have diffrent setting 97 is 2 1/4 turns out and 87 is 1 1/4 truns out

 

[sickofit]

Thanks for the reply Bones...

I've tried adjusting it,but for shits I went out today(Brrrrr,LOL)..and tried seating it,backing out 1-1\4 turns,but same results..tried for couple min to get started,and any use of choke besides just a little bit,results in...BOOM..!!..LOL..

It really seems like a ign timing issue...I tried to figure out the math for how many degrees it would be advanced if I skipped the cam forward a tooth,but I reall suck at math,LOL...By looking at the gear,which has 32 teeth,it would be around 8 degrees...so too much...I think...anyone figure that math out..??

Before I shell out the coin for a new stator,I think i'll order a vito's +4 degree key for the $40 bucks shipped to Canada and just see what happens from there.

I do see some posts about people using a D9EA plug with the higher comp pistons,so I will pick one of them up,but don't really think that's it,especially seeing as its cold as hell here right now,and thats a colder plug.

I did do some tests on the stator today,by trying to match the colors in the manual and what i've seen listed here,it didn't give me some readings,but the harness out of the stator has been taped up by P.O so who knows if colors at the plug are actually the same all the way into the stator.

Here are the results of combo's that did give me readings:

My wires are 3 white in one plug,green,blue,white,yellow in one plug,one red bullet and one brown bullet.

If I set meter at 200 Ohm

The only reading I get is blue to white which shows 176.9....any other combo of wires gives me nothing.

If I set the meter to 2000 Ohm I get:

Green to yellow = starts at 1130,but keeps climbing slowly until 1200
Blue to white = 178
Brown bullet to red bullet = 260

If I set the meter to 20K ohm

green to yellow stays a constant 1.08
Blue to white = 0.18
Brown bullet to red bullet = 0.26

Thats it,any other combo of wires gives me no readings.

I need someone with the same color scheme wires as mine to quickly ohm their stator and see what they get for readings.

Thanks..!!!!...:iagree:

 

[bones]

here is how to test the stator on the 87

On the 3 white wires coming out of the stator, they should all have 0.7~0.8 ohms resistance in all three combinations. That means imagine numbering each white wire either 1, 2, or 3. Check 1 to 2, 1 to 3 and 2 to 3. Also, check any one of the white wires to the laminated iron core of the stator. ANY continuity to ground indicates the stator has had an insulation breakdown and will have to be replaced.

To test the Source coil (for the ignition) connect your pocket tester from the white/green wire to the red wire. Resistance should be 270~330 ohms resistance.

To test the pickup coil, connect your tester from the blue to the yellow wire. Resistance should be 171~209 ohms resistance.

 

[sickofit]

Ya Bones,I had saved a page where you stated those wires and values,but trouble is with those colors,they don't match the colors on the 87.

By values I got,and some pics i've looked at online,i am thinking one pickup is colors blue and white(178 ohm)...the other pickup is green and yellow(1130 ohm..yowza)...the source coil is colors brown bullet and red bullet(260 ohm).

Here is a pic I found online that the wiring looks identical...and as you can see the 2 wires coming from one of the pickup coils are blue and white,and the wires coming from the other pickup coil are green and yellow.....So that only leaves the source coil,so it must be the only 2 left,the red bullet and the brown bullet.

Am I right in assuming that colors I ohmed are correct..??

And here's a pic I found of all the different plug combo's used over the years...the 87 looks just like A...and the 97 looks like D.

Now it looks to me like one pickup is bad..real bad..LOL...and source coil is just under the recommended 270-330 at 260.Now saying that,I have an extra pickup here thats ohming out just over the recommended 170-209 at 220 ohms....Should I try and swap out the one pickup and see what the deal is..LOL ...Would take a while to get a stator to me in Canada anyway....

Thanks guys...

 

[sickofit]

Well hell...!!!!....Of course couldn't stop thinking about that damn pickup coil.So I went out today and pulled the cover off,and changed the one pickup coil to the spare one I had that is just out of range....

Pulled choke half way out....plugged my damn ears.....and...

wait for it....

VRROOOOM...damn girl fired right up...!!!!...:rock::rock:..,no gunshots,no people runnin..(j\k,I live in Canada..hehehe...:haha:..)

Damn thing runs WAAAAYYY better...

I'll wait till spring,and order a new stator,as source coil is outta range by 10 ohm,and one pickup is outta range by 20 ohm,and after getting all the old tape off,the wires are pretty ratty lookin.

So for now,a new plug and she's good till spring..!!!

I was right on wires to check for the 87 as well

Blue-White = Top pickup coil
Green-Yellow = Bottom pickup coil
Red-Brown Bullets = Source coil

I believe these are the colors for the 1987 only.

Now to go congratulate myself with a cold beer...and maybe get dirty with the ol' lady...:nanner:

Here's a couple pics of the ol 87..has a dif graphic kit now,dif bars,nerfs,etc...i'll have to take some newer pics.

 

[jimmyde78]

Good to hear man! Love happy endings. Bones hooked you up.

 

[lbjamm]

Feels great when ya finally figure it out. Good job.

 

[bones]

nice to see her run right agian

 

[sickofit]

Thanks guys..!!!!